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Last Notes

2026-03-20 18:56:49 GMT

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i think that is a misunderstanding
1. bitcoin is not backed by something and "proof of work" is just a mechanism to defend the network against attackers trying to rob everyone
2. money is never scarce. the wording is misleading - i agree. only goods and services can be scarce. a limited money supply does not make it scarce, it just standardizes is - is 1lg or 1m as a standard measurement unit scarce? ...would you want constant change in what 1m or 1kg means?

2025-12-16 07:00:50 GMT

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lets name them... whether greed or seeing humans as things.... you always have lunatics somewhere, but when it comes to wars and the fate of millions ...its not aboit greedy or nasty humans, its about greedy or nasty elites.
Thr establishment is a caste.
Its them and their kids over generations.
There is little to no social mobility here.
Framing it in another way acuses the millions and protect the elites.

2025-11-12 11:13:59 GMT

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i dont buy that and you shpuldnt either.
tech os deflating endlessly, but ppl buy it even though every piece of tech is better and cheaper tomorrow.
deflation being bad is just a fairy tale indoctrinated to support the "money printer is good" story.
people live and need to eat and at some point they die, but bitcoin gets more valuable forever in theory... so waiting forever doesnt make sense

2025-11-12 08:57:58 GMT

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lastly, bitciins distribution is fairer than any other (shit)coin, most of them with ICOs or premine or some other form of investors getting in early. Any coin that gets made today suffers the same issue, because capitalists are aware now.
bitcoin is the only one that didnt have an ICO or premine or anything else and launched before capitalists really figured it out

2025-11-12 08:55:55 GMT

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oh and regarding transactions.
bitcoin is meant for everyone being able to participate and if thr main chain becomes too large, people cant run nodes anymore and thus it gets centralized.
for every day transactions, bitcoin scales by using the so called "lightning network", which is self custodial as well, so no intermediaries here either. The lightning network scales perfectly well imho.

2025-11-12 08:53:38 GMT

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hm.
when it comes to scams/fraud/criminals, it seems all these pump and dump ponzis exist in "cRyPtO" a.k.a web3
bitcoin is quite transparent and easy to analyze compare to the rest, so it makes it quite inconvenient for criminals to use, unlike our traditional money, which hasnt with its offshore shadow banks that hasnt stopped criminals in the slightest and makes it much easier imho.
why do you say btc in particular would be useful for criminals - makes no sense imho

2025-11-12 07:05:51 GMT

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bitcion fixes this.
what are alternative plans? ...there arent any.
the government hasnt helped with that since forever. it got worse and is now the worst ever.
how can anyone reasonably think this will ever change? ... there is only one way out and everyone adopting that path starts winning immediately and it only gets better from here.
why?
because the capitalists cant print it to devalue what folks earned

2025-10-23 04:42:11 GMT

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https://mri4all.org
there are so many open source projects and projects that describe how to make low cost medical equipment or produce low cost medication and so on... there are open tutorials for all kinda of procedures and methods.
..it all just has to become a movement and it needs to get applied to form alternative systems. thats it.
and once its working and open source, anyone can learn for free, copy/fork for free, etc... we can then philosophize how to tackle details 🙂

2025-10-23 04:39:53 GMT

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imho thats not abundance thinking.
the problem is gate keeping and all kinds of nonsense.
e.g. MRI4all hackathon made a fullly functioning open source mri machine in 4 days
largr scale and more systemically organized, the best "blueprints" could be replicated and used and could constantly be improved.
first make it work and get going before philosophizing of who gets to use it when imho.
as long as there is no alternative to now al philosophizing helps zero

2025-10-23 03:50:06 GMT

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hospitals are those big buildings with expensive equipment, but given how long waiting lists are and how expensive it is in many places... what wpuld it look like to have low cost low budget open source alternatives?
some medicine can be produces cheaply and relatively easily and ...some countries are so poor that hospitals are basic, but if you have skilled medical staff, who knows what can be achieved these saysm has anyone tried?

2025-10-23 03:47:53 GMT

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how about open source modular supply chains/networks with open communication.
instead of one hierarchical hospital, its all modular and organized just in time and on demand, where its transparent for anyone to observe and discuss, but not make decisions.
if things go bad somewhere, the functioning parts of the supply network can just each freely choose to collaborate with an alternative "module" instead.
this might be vague, but open source imho is the way for it all

2025-10-14 21:18:53 GMT

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So i assume you live in china then :-)

2025-10-14 21:15:30 GMT

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🤷 i'm not defending western governments.
you think/believe the story.
i think power hierarchies set incentives and create systems and it does not really matter "where people come from".
Ones the rules/incentives change, they start shaping you regardless of background. Once somebody is put into a new situation entirely diffferent from where they came from, they start changing and what was formerly every day reality becomes a distant more theoretical memory.

2025-10-14 20:55:17 GMT

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there are people in western governments too with a "worker background" ...makes for great stories. once they move into politics they become part of that.
again, people bekieve in all kinds of things and i dont believe in representation.
these are all just nice fairytales and they dont matter really.

2025-10-14 20:40:13 GMT

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i already said initially that skme elites are benevolent for various reasons, so we dont disagree, but tou forgot that i said that or rather laughed at it 🤷‍♀️

2025-10-14 20:36:23 GMT

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it happens in both directions.
its not US or China.
Its all governments against the people.
The reason this is the case is because its genuinely hard for millions of people to coordinate against elites that organize and play divide and conquer sadly

2025-10-14 20:30:42 GMT

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whatever.
that name doesnt show up on search engines nor in the long article you linked.
the chinese firewall is real and thats evidence enough, that china is no better than the censoring west is.
Its oppresive governments everywhere. Arrogant ppl in government who think they know best 🤷‍♀️

2025-10-14 20:22:21 GMT

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i have been and lived in taiwan for a long time.
i am not supporting any side, but honestly it also doesnt lead anywhere. your universe is just a parallel reality

2025-10-14 20:20:58 GMT

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if you are so smart, then tell me what happened. i guess all the news and video material from back in the days where AI generated then? 🫠

2025-10-14 20:10:43 GMT

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i dont.
i would argue just as hard against the west and capitalism.... actually thats how the thread started. you and yogthos made it about china somehow 🤷‍♀️

2025-10-14 20:08:22 GMT

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lol.
the west is colonialist and racist and china isnin theirnown way as well. the west has guns and so has china. china massacred on tianmen square and pressures taiwan. the west does the same. they all have guns.
i dont have guns and dont dream of guns.
billions of ppl dont care about the chinese government stories. they support the government because they see economic results. if that changes, ppl will change their opinions as well. its the same everywhere.

2025-10-14 20:04:43 GMT

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just get a "bitcoin credit card".
you can participate in an economy without paying directly in bitcoin.
of course, making bitcoin illegal will hurt the country and its citizens, its just like self imposed sanctions, but it wont kill bitcoin as such.
in some countries citizens are unbanked and/or face strong inflation. bitcoin is an escape for the ppl against their corrupt elites where theybwpuld otherwise just face misery

2025-10-14 20:01:37 GMT

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any person or organisation, if cut off from income wipl sooner or later lose their material wealth too.
...there is only so much wealth you can create and sustainnon your own isolated from everyone else....
without some form of money no organisation can scale to the size of millions and beyond.
the accounting ledgers are the foundation

2025-10-14 19:59:53 GMT

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we disagree here.
while the material reality is the goal, there is a system that decides how things get distributed.
and money matters here.
fundamentally ppl pay costs every say and ppl earn income too. if ppl dont earn income.they have to reduce their costs.
if some can print money they will "outwealth" everyone else - no matter their story.
the money is what creates the material reality produced across enormous supply chains.

2025-10-14 19:57:27 GMT

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our goals or expectations or values or philosophies are just too far apart to understand each other.
i am really deeply anti authoritarian and really into true consent, thus no government in the world right now is okay for me - there are just better and worse ones to choose from.
...but i expect everyone to be aware of it and actively criticse them all and search for better alternatives. ... but some are complacent because they dont see the issues.

2025-10-14 19:55:21 GMT

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interesting. thx for that web tool. useful 🙂
read through - sounds horrible.
also it says it aims to become more horrible, but incompetence makes it slow, still in the future it will get worse once they catch up.
the only "social credit score" system that supports the people is one that is subjective and the scores you see are based on whom you follow. a single centralized score is crap... unless its on the ppl to respect or reject it - meaning it wouldnt be binding 🙂
anyway

2025-10-14 19:49:14 GMT

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lol.
you know, that is just as laughable as "the west is ruled by its people, because democracy, you know"?
i bet you would agree that the west isnt ruled by its ppl, because reasons... but somehow you drinknthe chinese cool aid and believe it, when in reality its neither the case in the west nor in china.
the ppl governing themselves is a hard problem and billions of ppl cant coordinate easily and its hard work to invent and establish mechanisms that make this easier

2025-10-14 19:46:04 GMT

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lol.
authoritarians can be "well meaning"
you probably wont ever meet one who wont tell you they are - most dont even think about it, because to them thats a given & self evident
all governments are authoritarian
its always a tiny minority of ppl ruling over masses
ive never seen govs that actively try to dissolve itself by replacing centrally controlled mechanisms with more inclusive ones. Ppl in charge are happy with their power and love to impose their "good" onto the world

2025-10-14 19:31:45 GMT

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elites like to divide into left and right and while i despise reactionary culture and personally embrace the values of the left, its mostly authoritarians vs anti authoritarians who believe in civil liberties and full equality.
The divide in todays world is mostly between authoritarians and anti authoritarians and not left vs right.
the western governments, the big tech, the CPC, you name it... its all authoritarian and we the people should work to make them obsolete 🤷‍♀️

2025-10-14 19:27:33 GMT

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its paywalled.
the part i could read was
it actually blacklists/bans >10 million citizens, but it "was never designed to do that"...
...anyway, a system is what a system does.
Nobody stops china from dismanteling that sysytem. they dont, so it was obviously designed for that.
the only such system i wouldnt call out was one where individuals rate and anyone can see ratings based on whom they voluntarily follow ...but tthe chinese one is centralized. fuck this authoritarian crap

2025-10-14 19:23:53 GMT

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yes, and i have repeatedly answered that means of production are a net cost if you dont use them, so its a money sink and if you run out of money you go bust and lose it.
So to keep the means of production, you have to generate enough revenue and that isnt easy long term, unless you have a money printer, but you ignore this

2025-10-14 19:22:19 GMT

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even if you cant pay. bitcoin is used worldwide, so it keeps its value and grows too, because its unprintable. countries have made it illegal in the past and it didnt change anything.
if you temporarily cant use bitcoin to pay, you can still use it as store of value and you can use a VPN to create accounts on foreign bitciin exchanges and sell bitcoin and transfer income back to your account in fiat... or use a credit card that you can "top up" via bitcoin and pay in fiat when needed

2025-10-14 19:02:18 GMT

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it cannot be.
nobody can shut down bitcoin.
you can make it illegal, but thats just as true for pirating/torrenting and it has never stopped people from using it.
its fundamentally different than bank accounts which can be switched off/frozen in an instant, but bitcoin cannot.
you can make it illegal, but ppl can migrate or use VPNs and all sorts of firewall circumventing tooling and it will never be illegal in all 200 countries on the planet.

2025-10-14 18:59:55 GMT

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then i misunderstood you, so how do you imagine /think it is happening if not via money printing but also not as an automatism of markets?
would love to learn

2025-10-14 18:59:02 GMT

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lol.
i am against facebook or big tech indeed.
i am all for self sovereign users, hence open source peer to peer software.
have open networks and win ppl ovee by convincing them and showing actions. abusing power to trap/shield them is arrogant.
extracting data is what china does just as much as the west and you get merciless social credit scores. its a tool of domination and opression.
no need to win based on merit if you can just opress and shield

2025-10-14 18:40:21 GMT

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yeah sadly.
you imagine accumulation of means of production naturally follows from having markets - a fallacy, but what can we do about it.

2025-10-14 18:39:29 GMT

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not true. i have been in china and you cant use anything. no google, no gmail, no instagram, no facebook, no anything.
If you have a connected flight over china and have to stay over night because you miss the followup flight in china, you are cut off from the rest of the world. ...and without checking "gmails" you cant even easily book a new ticket.
its just a propaganda war elites vs elites

2025-10-14 18:37:15 GMT

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thats utter nonsense. sorry.
gold and silver are useless to run an economy or use it as a means of payment. bitcoin isnt.
nobody knows who has gold or silver and what is happening. bitcoin is transparent.
seizing gold/silver is easy, because it is physical and cant cross border controls, so you are stuck, bitcoin isnt... there are plenty of more differences.
bitcoin rules are a social contract, gold and silver are just a commodity ...list goes on.
you are too stuck to even notice

2025-10-14 18:34:28 GMT

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they do empower people. i havent shared much about my ideas yet to be honest.
we do not have any common ground on top of which we could argue, because you reject "money printing" as an issue, so we cant come together in any meaningful way, because we disagree on the foundation

2025-10-14 18:33:22 GMT

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money printing is the means by which the elites (capitalists and others) seize the means of production

2025-10-14 18:30:31 GMT

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Its not gold and silver under feudalism.
gold and silver coinage is still only harvested and controlled by the few and can be stolen and storing or transporting it is highly vulnerable to thugs robbing it away.
Just like today gold or silver are useless - at most you can own inflatable rights to physical gold or silver and transferring is inherently slow thus it just doesnt serve any purpose.
bitcoin is different. its open source and has a transparent ledger

2025-10-14 18:27:51 GMT

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I'm not a fan of the dalai lama either.
That's just another elite, just like your linked article expresses.
This is all just about different kinds of elites duking it out amongst themselves, each with their own stories. It all has nothing to do with the people, who end up living under the winning elite and the rules, some better than others, but always all still wealthy elites vs. the rest of the people.
I'm only interested in how to empower ppl more directly in everyday life.

2025-10-14 18:21:46 GMT

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controlling the means of production requires a method to seize them and money printing is that method and thats true for the west and for china as well.

2025-10-14 18:01:32 GMT

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you made the topic china.
i was talking about the world in general.
i agree that europe is deeply broken and its unclear when or if things will turn around. its the museum of the world and people are surpressed ... i dont disagree with that.
maybe you divide everything into pro china anti west vs against china pro west.... i'm not that.
i do.agree with your facts 🙂

2025-10-14 17:59:12 GMT

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you believe it all and glorify it.
just like some ppl glorify the reality of democracy we have in the west.
why the great chinese firewall then?
why shooting at students at tianmen square and putting it under the rug? why occupy tibet? why squeezing uyghurs?
...this list goes on.
Eceryone understands how china flourishes economically, which is great, but so did countries in the past under kings, and so did germany and japan after the end of ww2 ...and some even durung hitler... so?

2025-10-14 17:52:31 GMT

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elites print money.
check global public and private debt.
its expanding ever faster.
commercial banks create the majority of it.
but not for you or me, its for capitalists only.
in the fantasy world you describe, only goverments would create money, but they wouldnt expand it faster than the economic growth rate, but thats simply not reality.
just type "global debt" into google for a starting point.

2025-10-14 17:40:32 GMT

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same can be said about you.
its ubclear what point you want to make, because so far indo agree withball the facts you list. we differ in interpretation

2025-10-14 17:39:23 GMT

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sure, but you said one goes insolvent and another one bhys an existing house.
the meqns of productiin would be the builders who build the house innthe first place.
thats organized labour and hownits controlled

2025-10-14 17:38:14 GMT

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...they cant express, because just as in china there is only one 5 year plan ... a king also has their own ideas... in both cases its not consent based.
and consent is important as a principle the faster thebworld moves and the more connected thenworld becomes.
Also, diversity is important to tey different things in parallel and have not one force push things for everyone against resistance

2025-10-14 17:34:54 GMT

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Its easy to have mad growth rates when you start from little. japan and germany both had extraordinary growth rates back then.
also, if you grow because the whole world orders from you so you become some sort of export world champion, that makes it much easier.
the point is - sucess or not - even a wise king can lift a country and its peoppe from striving to thriving ... but it still means its brittle. the throne successor can fuck it up, and even if there are alternative ideas...

2025-10-14 04:01:18 GMT

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thats what brainwashing does. same in the west and everywhere...
all countries have elites that manufacture stories to make people believe in shit and many eve derive purpose from it, whether it benefits them or not - its hopium.
when the economy is booming ppl are happy.
it could be worse. the elite could be replaced by one that is worse.
...it could also be better, but thats just theory and ppl rather roll with reality and live their lives.

2025-10-14 03:54:11 GMT

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are we talking means of production or buying houses?
there are plenty of regions where houses lose value and collapse and some villages pay people to move in ans save houses.
you oversimplify dramatically and explain things as automatisms that are not at all.
you essentially claim any investment pays off and the buy doesnt need to think. it sounds absurd

2025-10-14 03:39:37 GMT

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just more stories. dont believe them. its the same with western democracies.
People have to pass screening, political background checks, loyalty, "ideological correctness"... who doesnt fit will be filtered out and wont even be available to be elected.
As far as i can tell, those delegates are electing and if you ensure the group of delegates has the right mindset, they will loyally choose what they should.
a CPC with 100 million members has plenty of options to screen for 3000 ppl

2025-10-14 03:26:43 GMT

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the summary already reads like brainwashing 101 though and the author doesnt seem to have a neutral background either.
China is very restrictive and authoritarian and the "great chinese firewall" or the "social credit score" ...or how they deal with tianmen square protests ...or tibet... or uyghurs.... the list is long.
It is elites empowering the people, especially those who think alike. its group think and bias. its human.
Progress in the world happens not because but despite

2025-10-14 03:11:46 GMT

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if bitcoiners buy up stuff, they lose bitcoin.. so they can only do it so often. ...so hopefully their investments were worth it.
its not guaranteed that investments pay off, unless you have a money printer, in which case it doesnt matter

2025-10-14 03:10:26 GMT

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if any alternative form of company was successful, the printers would run hot to bankroll it away.
...dumping prices, bribing, proping up copycats, smear campaigns, etc...
no movement can win against money printers

2025-10-14 03:08:56 GMT

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that is ridiculous.
thats just not how business works.
this is how money printing works.
if some business goes out of business, its supposed to be because there is no demand anymore. today thats not really the case. the average company's balance sheet is >75% of debt and only ~25% equity.
some companies are deemed too big to fail, others go out of business. its political.
if a company does not get their loans prolonged because capitalists decided so, they have to fold.

2025-10-14 02:57:45 GMT

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...its the same with other countries who were once receiving all the orders from the rest of the world, which makes growth easy. happened to china and japan too after the world war. its much more challenging once thats not the case anymore.
...what about tiananmen square?
i see you are a fan of strict hierarchies and elites and think they are a good thing... and are controlled through checks ans balances... and all billions of ppl are happy with it 🤷‍♀️
...not sure who is dogmatic here

2025-10-14 02:53:25 GMT

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i have seen plenty of multi millionaire chinese buying up real estate all over the world and they live abroad... e.g. vancouver.
you have the communist party and you have large companies. they swim in wealth and they use it to life up the country, but it still makes them a lot richer than the billions of people and that is true no matter if the decisions made are great or whether they suck.
Now china is the factory of the world, so everyone is buying from china, but this might stop

2025-10-14 02:09:47 GMT

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yes of course it did.
2008 and post 2008 is the elites enriching themselves on behalf of the masses by printing money for themselves... its called bailouts.. it goes by many names.. but its actually just business as usual. elites printing money for themselves and whatever they feel is right and should be done... the masses work for salaries to do what the elites decided

2025-10-14 02:08:25 GMT

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not making it up

2025-10-14 02:07:49 GMT

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all countries in this world have systems run by elites, whether "elected" or "inherited royals" or "dictators" or any other form ... countries usually of millions of people and a small fraction of them govern the country.
those elites have power which they can abuse and that is the reality in many countries.
some countries have benevolent elites, but it still doesnt mean the people have power. The people are at the mercy of elites

2025-10-14 01:34:39 GMT

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yes. very centralized decisions to print and spend money. proofs my point. ..in this case. benevolent elites 🙂

2025-10-14 01:33:53 GMT

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sure. benevolent elites. good decisions/programs/actions. ...money printing for the right cause. ...lets see what happens in the future i guess?
Still i dont see what this has to do with anything i said

2025-10-14 01:32:27 GMT

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yes, but what do you want to explain/proof with that? ...feels unrelated as well.
I agree with it if that helps you

2025-10-14 01:30:32 GMT

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yes, but that has nothing to do with the means of production or who is in charge

2025-10-13 23:53:00 GMT

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The mechanisms you talk about dont exist. They are fairy tales. It would be the wet dream of everyone to know how to start a successful business or how to keep a business successful or how to invest and make a profit... In all these regards, businesses die and its almost impossible to beat the market, which is why most people invest into general index funds, but even that is all rigged.
The reason some elites always stay rich is because they print the money. 2008 proofs it.

2025-10-13 23:50:45 GMT

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The millions or billions of people get born into circumstances, grow up and most rich elites inherit one way or another into the next generation. Call it what you want - different "forms of government" have different stories, but it doesn't really make a lot of difference apart from the daily "politics/theater" you can read about
Money is power
If all new money came into existance equally spread across all people for them to decide what to spend it on it would be real, but its not

2025-10-13 23:48:39 GMT

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It is elites, everywhere and they stay in power for a lifetime and they also usually turn it into family dynasties, in business just as in politics.
You read too many fairy tales.
The people dont hold anyone accountable. They have only symbolic choices. Reality gets shaped by capitalists every day 40 hours per week during work time and the money printing directs what we do.
If you cant see it because you read too much propaganda i cant help you sadly.

2025-10-13 23:46:40 GMT

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I dont know what you read, but the reason for financial crisis and wealth transfer to the top is money printing and bailouts. Since 2008 especially. Capitalism ended in 2008 but got an infinite bailout.
I have studied the subject for a very long time and sadly too many people who studied it turned a blind eye to the monetary system and banks and how nothing matters.
Sure, formally its loans, but in reality its money printing.

2025-10-13 23:44:15 GMT

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But bitcoin lives on and maybe in the future you migrate or maybe your country makes it legal again because the government changed, or you do civil disobedience, because whats the justification for making it illegal anyway? ...i guess opressive regimes do these kind of things, especially in countries where the population is expolited by the elites

2025-10-13 23:43:03 GMT

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i think you are fixated on the wrong thing,, but i guess you waont change your mind. too bad. You could support ending capitalism starting now :-)

2025-10-13 23:02:20 GMT

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while it is true, that "benevolent elites" who use their privilege in smart ways, can potentially empower the milliins and billions of people, it is still at the mercy of those elites.
I am generally against that, because even if you have times of smart idealists running the show, there is no guarantee that it will always stay this way. I dont trust elites or elitism and i think the people can self organize and it will lead to a much more resilient and stable situation

2025-10-13 22:59:44 GMT

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thats not how it works.
almost all capital creates costs. the more capital you have, the more costs too.
if you dont pay those costs, your capital will rott away, especially the "means of production" type of capital
so you have to first generate more revenue than your costs and that is not guaranteed... historically capitalists for generations is mostly possible because they print the money we use

2025-10-13 22:43:47 GMT

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...we need to kill the money printer.
global debt, private and public, increases faster and faster every year, since forever... that new money is used by capitalists to buy the fruits of our labour and make sure they consolidate means of production under their ownership.
if they ever lose that privilege, everything will start to change very fundamentally for the first time in history.

2025-10-13 22:42:24 GMT

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they might make it illegal, but its 200 countries, and not all of them agree all the time.
will russia save in USD in the future?
will china?
will any country rely on savings in foreign currencies that could get frozen/confiscated/... ...or will they start to settle in bitcoin?
i agree that in capitalism we live under dictatorship of capital and capitalists exercise it by printing money to payroll us all and give us orders ...before people can self organize on a more equal basis...

2025-10-13 21:38:14 GMT

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"crashes lead to further capital consolidation".
why? how?
this causality seems highly dubious.
i know a lot of economic literature claims that, but the reason is money printing.

2025-10-13 21:12:25 GMT

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i think we dont come together here.
i personally will stay away as much as i can from paying in or being paid in capitalist money.
either do things without money ornuse money they cant print. i recommend you the same, but you can also stay a slave of capitalism if you prefer...i dont know how to continue this. you seem to be okay with them printing money to keep owning the means of production and have some hope that some other magical way would change this... 🤷‍♀️

2025-10-13 21:09:59 GMT

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its the same there. they print as well.
its never the millions or billions of people. they are poor and have to work.
its the elites... call them capitalists or something else... different stories, but its always them directing the people to work for money and print more to stay in charge.
imho china and russia and the entire world is different shades of capitalism today

2025-10-13 20:19:19 GMT

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...but in our global economy its .ostly about printing money to stay in control... and that means capitalist elites stay in control... its thr same in all systems worldwide though.
the qay out is to stop accepting capitalist money for our labour. the one they pr8nt to keep us doing what they want... we can earn more, but they just print and inflation or rising house prices destroy the value of what we earned. its quite ridiculous.

2025-10-13 20:17:32 GMT

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yes money is a signal for sure.
we disagree though regarding the power dynamics and how they change.
ppl who own a lot have a big say, but they pay for it and earning that back isnt a certainty.
if they cant print money, everyone can go out of business and big business means also big cost, so it can always happen fast.
the money printing class privilege is what prevents it. before 2008 and also after, but after 2008 it is clear that it will never change.
making noney is one thing

2025-10-13 16:56:24 GMT

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it removes the hierarchy of unbanked, banked, bankers, top executives in banks, and so on...
it removes who can and cant print money.
thats a power hierarchy removed.
what hierarchy remains? ...some are rich and some arent? ..thats not a hierarchy as such, but i strongly doubt it will happen like that once capitalists cant print money anymore.
means of productions are a constant net cost unless you manage to use them to make money

2025-10-13 16:54:16 GMT

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no, there is no reason to assume that.
you end up with that structure if you allow capitalists and their money printing class privilege. thats right. why else would you?

2025-10-13 16:52:32 GMT

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this wasnt about society.
this was about capitalists owning the means of production.
if they had no money printing class privilege, there would be no capitalist class anymore which could keep their wealth that easily.

2025-10-13 04:08:58 GMT

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setting out to create a successful business is hard, most fail
maintaining a successful business long term is hard as well. most go out of business at some point. investing is hard and people lose money and outperforming the market is known to be hard
based on above its unlikely for anyone who is rich today to keep their wealth long term. everyone is only temporarily rich. the valuable means of production of today might be junk and a net cost tomorrow
...apart from money printing

2025-10-13 04:05:28 GMT

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fair enough.
i would sum it up as who controls the money printers. having one person as the only money printer or a few or even more or everybody.
never was money printing of all money be in the hands of everyone and never in the hands of literally only a single person
its always in between.
dictatorship means its in the hands of few.
democracy means it is in the hands of more.
owning the means of production means having money printing class privilege
bitcoin is new. nobody prints

2025-10-13 03:59:59 GMT

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markets is one concept.
doesnt mean capitalism is needed as another word.
capitalism "evolves" over time, but today its people of the waelthy capitalist class taking out larger and larger loans, since 2008 unchecked, to keep us all payrolled and do what they want and buy the lion share of the fruits of our labour.
...if you have capitalist controlling and essentially printing money via their banks as the ultimate class privilege, then removing that ends the capitalist class

2025-10-13 03:57:08 GMT

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this wqs just an example how hierarchy fails us.
capitalism is a hierarchy and it solves problems, but it comes with a cost.
having an open source ledger lile bitcoin removes that hierarchy and ends the capitalist class ... one example of how a system that is built on a class hierarchy can be replaced with a non-hierarchical alternative

2025-10-12 23:29:03 GMT

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nobody said you shouldnt learn from history, which includes the lessons about why something wasnt possible in the past and can now be re-examined.
technology does change how humans think and act, because technology unlocks ways people migjt have wanted in the past but ignored the option, because it belonged to the realm of science fiction.
same with organizing.
ppl might alqqys have wanted democracy at scale, but in the middle ages that qas logistically impossible - so it matter

2025-10-12 23:24:35 GMT

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open source as a whole is definitely less hierarchical than companies.
...still the world runs on open source.
strict company hierarchies cant compete.
a hierarchy is more like a competitive disadvantage, but capitalist money printing privileges can keep them alive to the detriment of everyone else for very long.
2008 was game over and capitalist elites chose to not fix anything and we all suffer under it

2025-10-12 23:22:11 GMT

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no they dont control the currency.
there is a big difference between being very rich or controlling the currency to:
1. either print money
2. or change the currency rules
even the very bitcoin rich can do neither of that.
that is a very capitalism ending and significant difference

2025-10-12 23:20:36 GMT

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fair enough, they are.
...but the lower dependency does not depend on the higher up one, rather the other way around.
.and its all chosen voluntarily by everyone participating.
...i can make a taxonomy with one root concept, but its not the same as a package supply chain and also not the same as absolut dictatorships who opress societies.... its comparing apples and oranges.
dictatorship is extreme power hierachy.
taxonomies have nothing to do with power.
packages are decentralized

2025-10-12 23:17:57 GMT

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i believe that you thought about it a lot. the thing is that sometimes new technological breakthroughs change or disrupt the landscape fundanebtally.
perspectives that were reasonably excluded from exploration in the past become possible and change all kinds of equations

2025-10-12 23:16:38 GMT

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yes, hierarchies are an organizational tool.
yes, hierarchies can be used to solve problems.
...but they are not the o ly way to solve problems and new technological breakthroughs can unlock new organizational tools - not in theory, because in theory all forms of organizations are and have always been possible, but in practical feasibility.
best example is democracy with millions of people not being possible without a printing press and a high degree of literacy.

2025-10-12 23:11:01 GMT

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the past does not count.
the same as there was no democracy at scale before the texhnology of the printing press.
only modern internet based tech has the potential to change the dynamics and its what we start to see everywhere.
without it was logistically not possible, because it was practically infeasible to coordinate the masses without power hierarchies, but not anymore

2025-10-12 23:09:06 GMT

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nobody says structureless.
structureless means indeed hidden adboc hierarchies - the worst.
nom ecosystem is not structureless.
its structure emerges very well defined through `package.json` files and that JS as such has no real standard library and that JS modules make it easy for really wide and deep dependency trees or dag's ... thata more the direction you should think of.
bitciin the same. not structureless. well defined and transparent too

2025-10-12 23:00:26 GMT

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thats pretty much not true, but ...even though wealth concentration is a thing, thats not the point of bitcoin.
bitcoin is about ending the capitalist class privilege of printing which can restore extreme wealth distributions at the whims of the capitalists.
of course, dueing transition times, capitalist scan buy into it and distort things, but they cant maintain it once transition is completed

2025-10-12 22:58:29 GMT

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ans the reason hierarchies can be abandoned and replaced by more efficient structures is one you can think about.
there are all kinds of different life forms.
extreme hierarchies everywhere is possible. absence of hierarchies as well and everything in between. its more a matter of choice and what you want to see and why, rather than skme sort of inevitable fact as you preach

2025-10-12 22:56:41 GMT

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you preach yours as well

2025-10-12 22:56:25 GMT

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you dismiss this choice or approach, because you prefer to follow and stick to hierarchies which prevent the vast low quality landscape, so you can get high qualoty without any effort on your side. ..it comes with a cost invisible unless people once experience what is possible if they allow everyone to participate and learn.
it means everyone has to co-curate and decide, but reap the benefits too this brings with it