Laeserin

Although, this is just our scene.
Most devs on here are just hackers, I think. They grew up anon on GitHub, and never had to personally face scrutiny, so they don't actually care if their stuff works because they just ghost, if too many people complain.

2024-07-02 10:03:40

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But fr. I've been reporting and reporting and reporting. Even when they acknowledge that the bug is really there, they just fix it and say, "I fixed it." and then they expect me to be all happy.
I JUST WORKED FOR YOU, WHERE ZAP?
I dunno. I've been doing that for 6 months and staying cheerful and yesterday I just was like, okay, that's it.
https://c.tenor.com/rRJoVkIaEkEAAAAC/tenor.gif

2024-07-01 23:42:20

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okay

2024-07-01 19:45:34

DevOps is underrated.

2024-07-01 13:29:44

Everyone talks about cooperation, but I'm increasingly feeling like the development version of the town bike.

2024-07-01 13:05:03

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Currently, we have a gigantic external dependence in Ngit. Which is fine, so long as everything is fine.
But we have a strong incentive to duplicate or fork it, so that we can be maintainers. Otherwise, we get no credit for any improvements and if we need a bugfix and isn't available, we'll be forced to fork it and have our customers switch to our version in a rush. I've had that happen in a software project before and it's incredibly embarrassing to admit that you have no control over a core feature.
This is why everyone prefers to fork, rather than contribute. Contributing regularly to something you don't have your name on is cucky.

2024-07-01 11:53:57

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What is the value added by this collaboration? Can we find synergies and increases the reuse factor to maximize our ROI? 😜

2024-07-01 11:47:32

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Yeah, sorry. Used to managing complex sw projects and it occasionally leaks out.

2024-07-01 10:36:53

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Hmm. Yes. But it would take away motivation to duplicate the effort.

2024-07-01 10:07:48

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We're not ngit maintainers, so we've been keeping our deliberations private, on Slack and in private repos.
We were considering forking ngit, but if Michael were a maintainer, we'd have less incentive to do that. Also, we just added a Rust developer, to the team, @npub1w4j…30zp
Perhaps we should deepen the collaboration to prevent drift. It's been mostly happening through my testing and should probably move to the ngit repo proper, otherwise it's just an effect of my person.

2024-07-01 09:20:56

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Ngit silos just sounds like a train wreck. 😂

2024-07-01 09:20:09

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Yes, I think this realm isn't mature enough to handle competition on that level, yet. We're still working through the kinks in our own NIP-01, basically.
If we diverge too much, now, it's gonna be a shitshow and turn people off of the concept.
We should probably compete more on sw features, than on core event kinds.

2024-07-01 09:13:52

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Yes.

2024-07-01 09:06:41

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Yeah, we are one step further on some of what you described and one step back on others. This is becoming inefficient.

2024-07-01 09:05:07

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I'm talking aloud to myself, mostly. If I see something frustrating or do something stupid, I formulate a rule, to remind myself of that moment.
I also include too many libraries because the libraries include libraries include libraries. But when you look to see what the bottom libraries are doing, it's hardly anything.

2024-07-01 09:00:26

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You're heading in our direction, sir. 🤔
@npub1wqf…qsyn y'all might need to just sit down and hash this out in a telephone conference. Y'all both went off to think and came back with something similar, but not identical.

2024-07-01 08:51:05

You ain't gonna need to include that library.
Go back. Take it out. Do without it. Think harder.

2024-07-01 08:42:25

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When you align consumer and producer incentives, in this way, the engineers have to actually... think.
How can we do the most, with the least?
The cost of the thinking is high, but it only has to be done once, whereas the costs of inefficient design are long-lasting. And each inefficient version is packed onto the last one, making it worse and worse.

2024-07-01 08:32:46

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I notice this because I worked in automotive, for so long. The customers' computer hardware is embedded in the car and covered by the extended guarantee.
Anytime we wanted to upgrade or change the software, we had to "make room" on the current system or buy new hardware at our own cost and exchange them in the shop. And we had a financial incentive to choose the least-powerful processor and simplest sensors possible, and then tune them and program them to maximum efficiency, because that raised the margin on each automobile, without lowering the customer experience.

2024-07-01 08:11:51

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A lot of what you think of as essential software developments are just indifference and lack of ingenuity.
They don't need to do anything groundbreaking, completely reorganize the workflows, rethink their data transmission concept, fix bugs, or refactor. They can just say:
You need a bigger battery.

2024-07-01 08:08:09

You need a new phone and laptop and faster Internet every couple of years because they can't be bothered to build better software because the people building it have a new phone and laptop and Internet every couple of years.

2024-07-01 07:24:59

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* resilient and efficient

2024-07-01 07:23:54

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Employee math. I only want to coordinate and integrate with other fanatics.
Someone who builds something because they wanted it built, just builds different. If you pay them or they receive some external funding, they're grateful and it helps them keep building, but that's not *why* they're building.

2024-07-01 07:22:28

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I've decided to call us a *development cooperative*, rather than a project team, as that fits the bill better and makes it clear that we only have co-owners, no employees.

2024-07-01 07:13:28

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Sorta. 🙈

2024-07-01 03:25:42

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I don't have anything against corporations, per say, but something tells me the that the "base layer" of any new industry is more resilient and inefficient, if it's built by people for whom money is not an endless ressource.

2024-07-01 03:18:46

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I actually thought everything thing being open-source would make it less attractive to big VCs and corporations and stuff, but it has little apparent effect.
They've learned how to make money pretending to be homegrown coders.

2024-07-01 03:07:43

FOSS has its own sort of money printer.

2024-07-01 02:53:59

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It also reduces the incentive to interact and communicate with other developers.
Interoperability lowers the development costs and effort dramatically because you can just use and reuse each others' stuff. It also gives you an incentive to actively promote *other people's* products and actively seek out interaction with them.
If money is no option, why bother? And why bother caring about interoperating with the wider network? The two or three biggest projects can just drive everything.
And that's how you quickly recreate corporatism in FOSS. FOSS has its own sort of money printer.

2024-07-01 02:43:45

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Just seems to feed a gold rush atmosphere and reduces the future-orientation of the product design, devops, and architecture.
Everything tends quick-n-dirty because you're performing for only one customer and it's a customer that doesn't even really use the product. They just want to see the returns on *their* investment, and they want to see them fast.

2024-07-01 02:28:57

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Or maybe I'm just trying to HFSP. 😂
Who knows.

2024-07-01 02:28:37

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The whole idea that it's a good thing for someone to get millions of dollars just dropped on their heads, when they have barely even started, is California Capitalism.
I think it leads to feverish boom/bust cycles, rather than more steady, organic growth.
And there's no evidence that the end result is better. Maybe being built a bit slower, by people with a small budget might actually have a positive effect on the product development. 🤔

2024-07-01 02:17:32

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Like, that's actually the normal path:
Someone invests *their own* capital and customers pay them for their products, and it takes years to break even.
That's why they have to be very responsive to customers and that's why capitalism leads to better products.

2024-07-01 02:16:34

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It just occured to me that I've had seven employers in my lifetime and all of them started out as little, self-funded projects, and then grew organically.

2024-07-01 02:09:11

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I guess we're just old-school, "let's build a product in the garage" kind of people.
Nostr needs people like that, too.

2024-06-30 19:50:18

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😂

2024-06-30 18:39:35

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I had to code something twice this week and it'll take me another week to recover from the trauma.
https://c.tenor.com/WbhNcHCMXJcAAAAC/tenor.gif

2024-06-30 18:31:18

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I only program under duress.

2024-06-30 18:13:22

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Like, do you think computer languages can coexist, or are you a virulent golang maximalist?

2024-06-30 18:06:21

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How flexible are you on the golang thing, Mleku? We're very C-heavy.

2024-06-30 16:41:53

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Yeah, just use Nostr. 🤷‍♀️ People are overthinking this.

2024-06-30 16:41:14

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You can't get me to do anything for money.
You can, at most, get me to do the same thing, but faster and with more enthusiasm.
😉

2024-06-30 16:39:05

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🤔

2024-06-30 16:22:26

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We've been doing this sort of thing for other people. This time, we work for ourselves.

2024-06-30 14:20:19

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Yes. 😂
Nostr Git

2024-06-30 13:21:06

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😊

2024-06-30 13:03:06

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Please check your DMs, sir. 😊

2024-06-30 13:02:14

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Yes, we're not making hardware. We're just commoditizing it.

2024-06-30 12:37:42

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https://i.nostr.build/8GLKW.jpg

2024-06-30 12:27:29

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I never learned it, so you're still ahead.
It's... literally Greek... letters. 😂

2024-06-30 11:56:42

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I like that. Nostr Suite. Suitestr. 😂

2024-06-30 11:53:57

No, we won't use your corporate whatever. We'll build a competitor and your stuff will be used by the people who think computers are magic.
We don't have any money, but we don't care.

2024-06-30 11:44:44

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It's Android for ePaper tablets, not Linux for laptops.
Nice, but...
Who are the npubs who are actually building their stuff? 🤔 Why have they never contacted any of us? Who is funding them?
Why should I trust these corporate strangers with my laptop OS?

2024-06-30 09:49:50

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Zapstore as the app store and etc.?

2024-06-30 09:47:19

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This is a good direction. How can we help double-down on that?
And are they integrating Git and Blossom into the fileserver and building a browser that uses npubs instead of Google accounts, etc.?

2024-06-30 09:39:49

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I'm a change agent. 🤷‍♀️

2024-06-30 09:34:35

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Oh, yeah, congrats to 🇨🇭 on the win!

2024-06-30 09:33:50

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We'd need a good PO, like Will or something.

2024-06-30 09:29:56

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@npub1gcx…nj5z @npub1xts…kk5s @npub1der…xzpc

2024-06-30 09:27:58

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#[4] #[5] #[6] #[7]

2024-06-30 09:22:46

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Talk amongst yourselves, gotta go to church, and the convo quickly escalated over my pay grade.
😂🙈
I feel like this needs to be a whole community effort. It's too big for one team, even a large team, like ours.
But how awesome would that be?
#[4] #[5] #[6]

2024-06-30 09:14:39

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Couldn't we just make a Mint fork and fiddle with it?

2024-06-30 09:04:36

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More like Linux Mint. That uses Ubuntu.

2024-06-30 09:01:59

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Same. 😂
I'm just like, why do I have to keep signing into things? This is annoying. Everything is on the same computer. Can't you just ask the computer?
He knows, he was there.
https://c.tenor.com/dxPJq76Lw30AAAAC/tenor.gif

2024-06-30 08:54:56

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Yeah @npub16r0…z5pl already suggested that. 🤔

2024-06-30 08:50:16

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And deliver it as a package with Nostr versions of desktop software.
Calculator, browser, document editor, IDE, etc.

2024-06-30 08:48:19

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And integrate git seamlessly, like Sharepoint does with Team Foundation.

2024-06-30 08:45:16

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You could also make local/remote relays part of the filesystem, like Microsoft does with OneDrive/Sharepoint in Windows.

2024-06-30 08:41:44

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I have no idea. I've never developed an OS before.

2024-06-30 08:39:29

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But why can't we use Nostr to login to machines?
Like, is there a reason?

2024-06-30 08:36:02

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I was just thinking aloud, in a different thread, about how we're a very Linux-native team, and it suddenly occured to me that a lot of the stuff being built in #Nostr #dev world is just a work-around for the fact that the operating system isn't Nostr-based.
Why not log into the computer with NIP-05 or something and temporarily switch users inside of apps to sign with a different key?

2024-06-30 08:26:15

Anyone building Linuxstr?
Asking for a friend.

2024-06-30 08:20:09

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We're actually going to have more functionality than GD. It doesn't contain a Nostr client or a code editor. The only field you can even type into is the commit field because the only database it uses is git, whereas we have relays.
Have to go to the GitHub website (if they haven't banned you, LOL Microsoft) or open an IDE to do almost anything outside of git commands.

2024-06-30 08:13:19

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apply for a grant

2024-06-30 08:12:05

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Gonna take forever to get there, but maybe other people will start building components and we can just lean into that.
We're focusing on the IDE and publishing, for now.

2024-06-30 08:08:37

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Wouldn't golang be a good language for a Nostr browser? 🤔

2024-06-30 08:04:51

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Yeah. Linuxstr. 😂

2024-06-30 08:02:21

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GM 😊

2024-06-30 07:52:23

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Not only, but also. 😂
I think we generally need another reviewer for models and algorithms.

2024-06-30 07:33:59

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Believe it or not, we actually really need a mathematician. 😂 Like, right now.

2024-06-30 07:31:16

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Thanks for the heads up. 👍

2024-06-30 07:16:41

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GM 😊

2024-06-30 07:15:56

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I'm @npub1l5s…gx9z on there, if you're wondering who the nag -- errrr.... I mean, "tester" -- is. 😁

2024-06-30 06:59:16

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1) Go to https://gitworkshop.dev/
2) Install the ngit Client under Linux or WSL. It uses a signer, now.
3) Then do ngit init from your local git repo and publish a repo event.
4) Write a note containing your repo addr.
5) Then you're back in business.
@npub15qy…yejr we have an emergency delivery.

2024-06-30 06:50:55

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It's going to be a real IDE, not just an Ngit desktop client.
The long-term (5 years) goal is Nostr OS.
Full-emersion Nostr, so that you don't really even notice that you're using Nostr because you log into your computer with Nostr.
That's why we want our own NDK and are being really anal-retentive and slow about everything.
But first, I get my book app. 😂
Fun to take a break and do something small and simple, for once. It's summer, after all.

2024-06-30 06:37:21

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But I begged Michael to pull the Alexandria webapp forward, so that I can spend my summer vacation publishing books and [@liminal 🦠] can finally get his implementation.
I totally distracted him, I know, but some cool stuff came out that might be useful for the IDE, so maybe it was Providence.
🥰

2024-06-30 06:34:15

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We're building a Nostr IDE for Linux that is compatible with the Ngit CLI from #[6].
#[4] and #[5] are currently finishing up the NIP-01 part of the Aedile NDK it is going to be written on, and then we'll be starting on the client.

2024-06-30 06:25:02

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You can find someone's code repository, in order to clone it, by using a Nostr address instead of GitHub or whatever.
We have a use case for this with Ngit.
#[4]

2024-06-30 06:21:58

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Oh man, that is fantastic. Can I DM you?

2024-06-30 06:19:10

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And Bitcoin dust. 😂

2024-06-30 06:18:41

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Hast du ihm gesehen, beim zweiten Tor? 😂
So viel Leidenschaft, echt.

2024-06-30 06:17:34

Everything you write on a computer is code, unless you write in binary.
GM

2024-06-29 23:46:11