The analogy you gave is terrible, because David is on the same plane of existence as Uriah and the men he used to kill them. The question is, was that whole sad situation part of God's glorious plan for the Messiah to be born through Bathsheba's line.
"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today" (Genesis 50:20).
"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit" (John 15:16).
You keep arguing with me that people have real choice, and I'm agreeing with you. My problem is that you are using your logic to limit God's power. I would be fine with that if there weren't hundreds of texts that emphasize God's decision over the events of history.
Open Theism is bad for the same reason that Hyper Calvinism is bad. God's sovereignty and human choice and responsibility are both taught in Scriptur. There are several systems which attempt to deal with both of those truths, some better than others. Unfortunately, both Open Theism and Hyper Calvinism deal with only one truth, using human logic to ignore the other.
You have not yet even heard my argument against you as far as I can tell. I'm not trying to argue that you are wrong to believe humans make real choices. I'm saying you're making a mistake by not holding on to both truths. It's much preferable, in a difficult situations to say, "I don't know how both these can be true, but I want to believe what's clearly in the Scripture." Open theism says, "There is no way that both of these can be true (according to my impressive human logic) therefore, I'm going to find a way to explain away texts about God's sovereignty."
isaacsumner
npub1m0…5d8tz
2023-09-30 12:09:59
in reply to nevent1q…ryv9
Author Public Key
npub1m04hmlsdmyejgz027glwqk2j0zzghd55tpetkst09evjg4j56ncs75d8tzPublished at
2023-09-30 12:09:59Event JSON
{
"id": "a64411bf3ef53afd514737673092fd81bbed6d25809cb4cf81c50bb292506f2e",
"pubkey": "dbeb7dfe0dd9332409eaf23ee0595278848bb6945872bb416f2e59245654d4f1",
"created_at": 1696068599,
"kind": 1,
"tags": [
[
"e",
"ed2011d794c96aaa4c280c70af13e0f116068eea95bbaecba07546b43421b4e1",
"",
"root"
],
[
"e",
"c24451fa00c920c2bdff6eac46733b21d92e30a5187fbfb1cd8545de00f68e6e"
],
[
"e",
"89ddecf185b6351b48c0e7a88367e54c00af2f376b6258f1501c9ce1fc986ecc"
],
[
"e",
"0eea0092d3efd10dc67a30cfa215a0af4103c42be9cd6b53a2b6db0bd55fb21e"
],
[
"e",
"74e07b8780de3c0511ee703c25141e58e60e55530021c7f74dbb8ae0af5e232a",
"",
"reply"
],
[
"p",
"4ff652622cbe22d93e3a0ce2487e86736a9a209724a7328c59bc29b064a42926"
],
[
"p",
"dbeb7dfe0dd9332409eaf23ee0595278848bb6945872bb416f2e59245654d4f1"
]
],
"content": "The analogy you gave is terrible, because David is on the same plane of existence as Uriah and the men he used to kill them. The question is, was that whole sad situation part of God's glorious plan for the Messiah to be born through Bathsheba's line.\n\n\"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today\" (Genesis 50:20).\n\n\"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit\" (John 15:16).\n\nYou keep arguing with me that people have real choice, and I'm agreeing with you. My problem is that you are using your logic to limit God's power. I would be fine with that if there weren't hundreds of texts that emphasize God's decision over the events of history.\n\nOpen Theism is bad for the same reason that Hyper Calvinism is bad. God's sovereignty and human choice and responsibility are both taught in Scriptur. There are several systems which attempt to deal with both of those truths, some better than others. Unfortunately, both Open Theism and Hyper Calvinism deal with only one truth, using human logic to ignore the other.\n\nYou have not yet even heard my argument against you as far as I can tell. I'm not trying to argue that you are wrong to believe humans make real choices. I'm saying you're making a mistake by not holding on to both truths. It's much preferable, in a difficult situations to say, \"I don't know how both these can be true, but I want to believe what's clearly in the Scripture.\" Open theism says, \"There is no way that both of these can be true (according to my impressive human logic) therefore, I'm going to find a way to explain away texts about God's sovereignty.\"",
"sig": "29d1688a269d23fe0c18f841f4b1b4135fc3bea3b79f132c3416b135142dd416a2153ea9f6921903a75cfce156227546ff27b29dc6866e99e7104f08f44aab9d"
}