Un Ix [ARCHIVE] / is on Nostr

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🗓️ Active from 2014-03-14 to 2015-07-31
💬 Posted a total of 9 messages
📚 Participated in the following categories: Bitcoin-development, bitcoin-dev
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2023-06-07 17:44:28

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📅 Original date posted:2015-07-31
📝 Original message:+1 on the comments below by Thomas.
"Fee market" is not a
binary option, either on or off. Like all markets it exists in varying
degrees over time and with more or less influence on the process of which it is
part of. As it stands now, and likely for another decade at least, the
fee per tx constitutes a very, very weak market signal for the miners since it
makes up less than 0.5% of the rewards paid for mining a full block. This is the normal and expected scenario, aimed at driving use of Bitcoin
as widely and cheaply as possible so that network effects will cement
Bitcoin for the future, for all users.
As a comparison, how many people would have
taken up using email if there had been a per-message fee and hourly
sending limits with only the highest-fee messages being delivered? And
how would it look if the email protocol developers imposing fees
& hourly sending limits were pushing hard for use of another email-delivery protocol on
top of the existing one?
> To: bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 11:56:48 +0200
> Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Răspuns: Personal opinion on the fee market from a worried local trader
> From: bitcoin-dev at lists.linuxfoundation.org
>
> On Friday 31. July 2015 03.21.07 Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > If I was a miner and you want me to include your transaction for free,
> > you're asking me to give you money
>
> What?
>
> Ask yourself; why do miners include transactions at all? What it the incentive
> if there really is only less than 0.8% of income to be derived from fees?
>
> Miners don't get payed by fees. They won't need to get payed by fees for
> decades to come. Maybe you want to re-do your math, it seems off.
> --
> Thomas Zander
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2023-06-07 17:25:25

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📅 Original date posted:2014-08-20
📝 Original message:Excuse the ignorance, but there is something I’m not getting in this discussion.
Given it’s a published protocol, with available source code running on an open P2P network, why would any messages between nodes benefit from being encrypted? Surely all the data being processed by the network is known to any persistent client node(s)?
Seems like that solution is orthogonal to the root problem, where attackers could monitor the network and deduce IP addresses by e.g. mapping senders of transactions.
From: Peter Todd
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎August‎ ‎20‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎28‎ ‎AM
To: William Yager, bitcoin-development at lists.sourceforge.net
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
On 19 August 2014 21:19:43 GMT-04:00, William Yager <will.yager at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Peter Todd <pete at petertodd.org> wrote:
>> In any case, my suggestion of enabling hidden service support by
>default
>> adds both encryption and reasonably good authentication.
>
>
>Enabling hidden service support by default would introduce an insanely
>huge
>attack surface.
Hence my suggestion of separating that surface by using the standalone Tor binary, which runs under a different user to the Bitcoin Core binary.
>And you're conflating two different things; using Tor is valuable to
>Bitcoin because it would provide some anonymity. The encryption aspect
>is
>pretty much useless for us.
First of all, without encryption we're leaking significant amounts of information to any passive attacker trying to trace the origin of Bitcoin transactions, a significant privacy risk.
Secondly the upcoming v0.10's fee estimation implementation is quite vulnerable to Sybil attacks. Authentication and encryption are needed to make it secure from ISP-level targeting to ensure that your view of the network is representative. Tor support used in parallel with native connection is ideal here, as neither the Tor network nor your ISP alone can Sybil attack you. It's notable that Bitcoinj has already implemented Tor support for these same reasons.
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2023-06-07 17:22:39

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📅 Original date posted:2014-06-14
📝 Original message:Was joking, but isn't the translation process back-ended with runtime tests to ensure that any stray chars etc cause the application to fail?
> On 14/06/2014, at 1:49 pm, "Matt Whitlock" <bip at mattwhitlock.name> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, 14 June 2014, at 1:42 pm, Un Ix wrote:
>> How about a prize for anyone who can spot any "malicious" strings within next hour?
>
> I think it's more an issue of accidental breakage than any maliciousness. One character in the wrong place in a language bundle somewhere can make the difference between success and runtime failure, and it may not be immediately apparent when running in unaffected locales. This kind of problem isn't likely to result in data loss (or money loss, where money is data, is in Bitcoin), but it could be enough to necessitate scrapping the whole release, which would look bad and prompt users to question the dev team's quality control process.

2023-06-07 17:22:38

- reply

📅 Original date posted:2014-06-14
📝 Original message:How about a prize for anyone who can spot any "malicious" strings within next hour?
;-)
> On 14/06/2014, at 1:32 pm, "Wladimir" <laanwj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik at bitpay.com> wrote:
>> As a general principle, I agree. Other projects have translation
>> freeze points to address this. Although it is a small holistic risk,
>> in theory, someone could maliciously change strings at the last minute
>> in a language maintainers don't know well.
>
> I was just doing what was always done. In practice, the translations
> follow a very different cycle than the rest of the code. Entering
> translations as well as reviewing them happens inside Transifex.
>
> Sure, someone could "maliciously change strings". It's typical that
> this little bikeshedding topic attracts so much attention.
>
> But if it makes all of you happy I won't do the translation update.
>
> Wladimir
>
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2023-06-07 17:20:48

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📅 Original date posted:2014-05-03
📝 Original message:Think your example is not quite valid ...
People say or write $88M or $45k I.e. use SI prefix as a suffix, else it would be more, not less, clear on what amount is being referred to.
For me, "bits" are easy to say and one million as a factor is simple to understand.
M-bits, kilobits, millibits, etc are never going to be used by folk in everyday transactions, IMHO
Gavin
> On 3/05/2014, at 10:40 am, "Luke Dashjr" <luke at dashjr.org> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, May 03, 2014 12:54:37 AM Ben Davenport wrote:
>> My only addition is that I think we should all stop trying to attach SI
>> prefixes to the currency unit. Name me another world currency that uses SI
>> prefixes. No one quotes amounts as 63 k$ or 3 M$. The accepted standard at
>> least in the US is <currency-symbol><amount><modifier>, i.e. $63k or $3M.
>> That may not be accepted form everywhere, but in any case it's an informal
>> format, not a formal one. The important point is there should be one base
>> unit that is not modified with SI prefixes. And I think the arguments are
>> strong for that unit being = 100 satoshi.
>
> Huh? Your examples demonstrate the *opposite* of your point. 'k' and 'M' *are*
> the SI prefixes. People *do* use 63k USD, $63k, and $3M. I'll be the first one
> to admit SI is terrible, but I don't understand your argument here.
>
> Luke
>
> P.S. Note that SI units haven't actually ever been adopted, except by force of
> law. "Name me ... that uses SI" is a silly thing to say, since virtually all
> naturally-or-freely-adopted units of any measure have been based on a number
> that factor to twos and threes (not fives, like decimal).
>
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2023-06-07 17:20:40

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📅 Original date posted:2014-05-04
📝 Original message:+1(bit) for your bit on bits.
> On 4/05/2014, at 2:18 pm, "Aaron Voisine" <voisine at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Bit by bit, it's become clear that it's a bit much to worry even a
> little bit that overloading the word "bit" would be every bit as bad
> as a two bit horse with the bit between it's teeth that bit the hand
> that feeds it, or a drill bit broken to bits after just a bit of use.
>
> Aaron
>
> There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole
> government working for you -- Will Rodgers
>
>
>> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Drak <drak at zikula.org> wrote:
>> +1
>>
>>> On 4 May 2014 02:06, "Chris Pacia" <ctpacia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Absent a concerted effort to move to something else other than 'bits', I
>>> would be willing to bet the nomenclature moves in that direction anyway.
>>> 'Bits' is just a shorten word for 'millibits' (or microbits, if you
>>> will). It's easier to say and my guess is people would tend to use it
>>> naturally own their own. Kind of like 'bucks' for dollars.
>>>
>>> The other synergies are:
>>> -bit is part of the word Bitcoin. The currency unit bit is part of a
>>> whole bitcoin.
>>> -bit symbolically represents the tech nature of the bitcoin.
>>> -bit used to be a unit of money way back when. This largely reclaims it.
>>> -when used as money bit when in references to a precession metal coin.
>>> The name 'bitcoin' references that as well as the mimicking of the gold
>>> standard in the protocol rules.
>>>
>>> All around I don't think there is a better fit. I doubt people will get
>>> confused by it. The context it's used in will distinguish it from other
>>> uses of the word.
>>>
>>>> On 05/03/2014 12:27 PM, Mike Caldwell wrote:
>>>> I agree with the sentiment that most people don't understand either
>>>> computer science or Bitcoin. The goal of getting people to understand
>>>> enough about Bitcoin to use it is achievable and a goal that is "in scope"
>>>> of our efforts. Getting them to understand computer science at large at the
>>>> same time, less so.
>>>>
>>>> The fact that people routinely confuse RAM and hard drive sizes has much
>>>> to do with the fact that the average lay person has little need to
>>>> prioritize this as something to keep in the forefront. They don't get
>>>> "horribly" confused, they just simply don't get worked up over what looks to
>>>> them like a rounding error, much to the dismay of anyone who believes that
>>>> everyone should be an expert at computer science. The average joe may
>>>> assess (accurately from his perspective) that the distinction isn't
>>>> important enough to merit significant mental resources and he is justified
>>>> in not expending them that way even if someone else thinks he should.
>>>>
>>>> Poor understanding is precisely what a proper effort to name this would
>>>> be to avoid. It is not frill or aesthetics, it is a planned targeting of
>>>> language to achieve the clearest communication to the widest possible target
>>>> audience using the language most likely to be understood by them in light of
>>>> our objectives. It's marketing.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On May 3, 2014, at 9:49 AM, "Christophe Biocca"
>>>>> <christophe.biocca at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Context as a disambiguator works fine when the interlocutors
>>>>> understand the topics they're talking about.
>>>>> Not a day goes by without me seeing "neurotypical people" get horribly
>>>>> confused between RAM and Hard Drive sizes, because they share the same
>>>>> units (not that that can be helped, as the units are supposed to be
>>>>> the same, base 1000 vs 1024 notwithstanding).
>>>>>
>>>>> Bit (as a unit) is already really confusing for anyone who doesn't
>>>>> deal with it on a regular basis. I think people who don't see an issue
>>>>> are making an assumption based on their own lack of confusion. We
>>>>> understand computer science AND Bitcoin. Most people have zero
>>>>> understanding of either.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bitcoin already has a ton of issues with terrible names for things:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Mining (for transaction validation).
>>>>> - Addresses (which are meant to be one-time use, and don't even really
>>>>> exist at the network level).
>>>>> - Wallets (which don't hold your bitcoins, can be copied, and all
>>>>> backups can be stolen from equally).
>>>>>
>>>>> I end up having to make the distinctions obvious every time I explain
>>>>> Bitcoin to someone new to it. There's an acceptable tradeoff here,
>>>>> because there were arguably no better words to assign to these
>>>>> concepts (although I'd argue mining is a really awful metaphor, and is
>>>>> the one that prompts the most questions from people). Then add to the
>>>>> pile a bunch of third parties naming themselves after parts of the
>>>>> protocol (Coinbase,Blockchain.info). Not blaming them for it, but I've
>>>>> definitiely seen average people get confused between "the blockchain"
>>>>> and "blockchain.info" (not so much Coinbase, because that name doesn't
>>>>> come up in beginner explanations).
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems downright masochistic to add
>>>>> yet-another-word-that-doesn't-mean-what-you-think-it-means to the pile
>>>>> for no reason other than aesthetics. Are we actively trying to confuse
>>>>> people?
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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2023-06-07 17:19:06

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📅 Original date posted:2014-04-21
📝 Original message:Tamas,
"xbit" is only a typo or spelling error away from "XBT", and some folks may assume they refer to the same unit of measure, not knowing the new currency system as developers here do.
From your email, I got the idea of using "x" as a suffix at the end of a number of bits e.g. 17500x, like cents or centavos. I guess this might clash with formal S.I. notation but it's easy to read and has less ambiguity, IMHO.
> On 21/04/2014, at 2:21 pm, "Tamas Blummer" <tamas at bitsofproof.com> wrote:
>
> Here is one to please those looking for a “fully qualified” slang word, that links with the official XBT:
>
> xbit (spoken: ex-bit) would rationalise XBT (where X comes from supranational use) and is unique.
>
> I personally associate from x to six also supporting the 1e-6 divisor of Bitcoin.
>
> Regarding XBT: No matter who used it for what. The way Bloomberg will use it will define its use in finance,
> and since that did not happen yet, we are not late to shape.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tamas Blummer
> http://bitsofproof.com
>
>> On 21.04.2014, at 07:41, Pieter Wuille <pieter.wuille at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2014 3:37 AM, "Un Ix" <slashdevnull at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Something tells me this would be reduced to a single syllable in common usage I.e. bit.
>>
>> What units will be called colloquially is not something developers will determine. It will vary, depend on language and culture, and is not relevant to this discussion in my opinion.
>>
>> It may well be that people in some geographic or language area will end up (or for a while) calling 1e-06 BTC "bits". That's fine, but using that as "official" name in software would be very strange and potentially confusing in my opinion. As mentioned by others, that would seem to me like calling dollars "bucks" in bank software. Nobody seems to have a problem with having colloquial names, but "US dollar" or "euro" are far less ambiguous than "bit". I think we need a more distinctive name.
>>
>> --
>> Pieter
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2023-06-07 17:19:03

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📅 Original date posted:2014-04-20
📝 Original message:Something tells me this would be reduced to a single syllable in common usage I.e. bit.
My 2 cents goes for "bit".
Because: Bitcoin is a digital currency, BTC starts with "bit", "bit" refers to a small amount of something in its regular english usage and lastly 99.9876543% of people on the planet don't know what a digital "bit" is yet ...
Gavin
> On 21/04/2014, at 9:20 am, "Mike Caldwell" <mcaldwell at swipeclock.com> wrote:
>
> My impression:
>
> Good because it is short, memorable, and pronounceable by speakers of most languages (though to most of the world that would be oo-bit, as "u" being "yu" is mostly an English thing)
>
> Downsides include the fact that μ is not a U, it just resembles one. It is a lowercase M in Greek, a live spoken language also studied by many, and calling it a U conveys a notion of global unawareness. And the potential for "XBT" to be 1e-6 BTC on the world stage would be huge, worth pursuing.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 20, 2014, at 6:16 PM, "Justin A" <allport at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> <delurk>
>>
>> What about "ubit", pronounced "YOU-bit", representing 1e-6 bitcoin? Easy to say, tied in a visual way to the metric micro, leaves the required 2 decimal places for the marginally numerate.. What more could one want?
>>
>> </delurk>
>>
>> Also, hi. My first post; plan to get involved over the southern hemisphere winter if I can learn enough.
>>
>>> On Apr 20, 2014 4:32 PM, "Mike Caldwell" <mcaldwell at swipeclock.com> wrote:
>>> By culturally neutral I mean we avoid deliberately invoking a cultural reference in the name. For example "satoshi" would be a reference to Japanese culture just for being a common Japanese name regardless of who Satoshi turns out to be.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Apr 20, 2014, at 1:20 PM, "Christophe Biocca" <christophe.biocca at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Culturally neutral? "bit" in French phonetically collides with slang
>>> > for phallus ("bitte", with a silent "e"). Apparently it means "louse"
>>> > in Turkish as well.
>>> >
>>> > Not that this really would be avoidable with any short word (all the
>>> > short possible words are usually taken), but it's not neutral.
>>> >
>>> >> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Oliver Egginger <bitcoin at olivere.de> wrote:
>>> >> Hello,
>>> >>
>>> >> just my two 'cents':
>>> >>
>>> >> Terms arises by itself. Just as most people speak of coins when they
>>> >> mean bitcoins. I do not see that bitcoin is currently in common use
>>> >> except for speculation. Therefore no term for smaller units has
>>> >> established yet. No problem in my eyes. Time will tell.
>>> >>
>>> >> - oliver
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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2023-06-07 17:15:41

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📅 Original date posted:2014-03-13
📝 Original message:Second this comment.
A change like this so soon after mt gox debacle would be one more sign of bitcoins 'instability' for skeptics and average folk who read only headlines.
In general, it seems some people are looking to try and change the publics mental price of BTC which is more of a non-technical challenge.
Gavin
> On 14/03/2014, at 12:21 am, "Troy Benjegerdes" <hozer at hozed.org> wrote:
>
> <cynic hat: on>
>
> Every volatility bump messes up expectations of what a bitcoin is worth,
> so why are we bikeshedding uBTC vs mBTC? Just be done with it and do mBTC
> now, and plan uBTC for just after the next price spike to $10KUSD or whatever,
> and then plan on rolling back to mBTC when the price crashes from altcoin
> money supply inflation competition.
>
>
>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 09:45:54AM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote:
>> <vendor hat: on>
>>
>> Based on this seeming consensus, BitPay was headed towards uBTC
>> internally, and hoped to coordinate messaging and rollout with others
>> in the community. Ah well, proceed apace, and Bitcoin Wallet will
>> catch up, I suppose.
>>
>> Multiple unit changes negatively impact users, but we are already there :/
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Wladimir <laanwj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik at bitpay.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Resurrecting this topic. Bitcoin Wallet moved to mBTC several weeks
>>>> ago, which was disappointing -- it sounded like the consensus was
>>>> uBTC, and moving to uBTC later --which will happen-- may result in
>>>> additional user confusion, thanks to yet another decimal place
>>>> transition.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've kind of given up getting any consensus about this, or even getting
>>> people to care.
>>>
>>> Everyone agrees that a decimal shift would be good, but it's the same boring
>>> shed painting discussion every time on how many decimals. In the end nothing
>>> happens.
>>>
>>> I can't really blame Andreas for finally taking action and making the change
>>> to mBTC. People in the community are familiar with mBTC because some
>>> exchanges and price sites used mBTC (at least for a while when >$1000), also
>>> mBTC seems to be catching on on reddit etc.
>>>
>>> Moving to muBTC (which in itself would be better because it is the final
>>> unit change ever needed without hardfork) would require more coordinated
>>> education effort.
>>>
>>> Wladimir
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Garzik
>> Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
>> BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/
>>
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>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Troy Benjegerdes 'da hozer' hozer at hozed.org
> 7 elements earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul grid.coop
>
> Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel,
> nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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