Mein "Geburtstag" ist natürlich nicht mein Geburtstag, sondern mein Rezztag. Seit dem Tag gibt es meinen ersten Avatar. Meine "Homepage" ist mein Blog zum selben Thema wie dieser Kanal, #OpenSim und virtuelle Welten im allgemeinen. Es ist im #Fediverse und sollte föderieren mit #Mastodon, #Pleroma und #Friendica, hat aber auch einen Atom-Feed.
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Published at
2023-03-27T15:48:39+02:00 Event JSON
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Last Notes npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst This should be a Law of the Fediverse: After FediForum is before FediForum. #FediForum npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Danie van der Merwe Mastodon came after Hubzilla. Hubzilla was built on its own protocol and Hubzilla added the ActivityPub protocol long time back to connect to the whole Fediverse (not just Mastodon). You know that, I know that, but there are not exactly few people on Mastodon who don't know that. Even when they learn that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon, much to their surprise, they tend to believe that if Mastodon isn't the only Fediverse project, it must still have been the first. And everything that isn't Mastodon is either bolted onto Mastodon or an intruder. Don't see what issues Mastodon users may have with it, as it has connected for ages. Disturbingly long posts. Non-Mastodon users are banned for exceeding 500 characters once. And I'm pretty sure that Mastodon users try to have non-Mastodon users sanctioned by their admins for breaking this unwritten Fediverse rule. Quote-posts. For Hubzilla users, it's called sharing, and it has been the equivalent to Mastodon's boosts since 2015 because Hubzilla can't boost. Not until Hubzilla 9 is out. For minorities on Mastodon, it's the exact same thing as the quote-tweets that were used on Twitter to harass them. And Hubzilla doesn't let them opt in, not even opt out. Hubzilla can quote-post anyone on Mastodon, always. I'm not even sure if every last first-wave and second-wave Twitter refugee who got used to Mastodon 3 is used to seeing things on Mastodon that were absolutely impossible on Mastodon 3 such as text formatting. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Hubzilla npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland This is interesting to watch. The cat's out of the bag. @Mike Macgirvin 🖥️'s announcement to implement nomadic identity à la Hubzilla and (streams) in ActivityPub is in the news all over the Fediverse. Of course, you can't expect everyone in the Fediverse to know what nomadic identity is, so the explanation is that it's that stuff that Hubzilla does. Which, in many cases, is the very first time that Mastodon users even read that name and learn about the existence of that project. I mean, I've seen a poll just yesterday, according to which three out of four Fediverse users have never heard of Hubzilla. This, in turn, piques their interest. All of a sudden, lots of Mastodon users are curious about Hubzilla as it's said to be able to do things that Mastodon can't, but that they wish Mastodon could. Some like @dynamic who haven't used any other Fediverse projects than Mastodon so far actually go as far as trying it out themselves, only to discover something probably absolutely unexpected: Hubzilla works and handles absolutely nothing like Mastodon. And that's not simply due to the formerly-default-and-now-only UI that's perpetually stuck in 2012. They may actually wonder why Mike had the audacity to build something that's so much different from Mastodon instead of just aping Mastodon and slapping extra stuff on. And I guess they're even more surprised when you tell them that Hubzilla was made before Mastodon. Which means that there was a Fediverse before Mastodon. It occurred to me only recently just how many ways Hubzilla has to completely blow Mastodon users' minds. However, it isn't like people who have come from Twitter to Mastodon to Hubzilla over the last year and a half are all happy about how Hubzilla is different from Mastodon. Switching from Mastodon to Hubzilla takes more getting used to than switching from Twitter to Mastodon, especially if you expect Mastodon to be a standard that everything else has to follow. There are, in fact, lots of things about Hubzilla that'll irritate people used to Mastodon to no end. The confusing difference between account and channel. The unusual conversation model that sends posts to other people than on Mastodon which doesn't have a conversation model. Separate editors for posts and comments. In fact, posts and comments being something different. ActivityPub not being on by default, and instead of having a simple opt-in switch in the settings, you have to "install" an "app" to be able to connect to Mastodon. No CW field (it's the summary field, but there's none for comments). No alt-text field. No distinction between followers and followed. Stuff in the settings not being where you'd expect it to be from your experience with Mastodon. And I'm not even talking about the vast permission options yet. Or the filters which even I say need improvements. Or Hubzilla being unable to boost (shall be fixed with Hubzilla 9) and follow hashtags. Or people telling you that you have to type code manually if you want to have alt-text. Even those who learn about Hubzilla without trying it are confused. Why is it so different? Why does it have to be so different? Why can't it be like Mastodon? In fact, it doesn't really occur rarely that Mastodon users consider almost everything in which Hubzilla differs from Mastodon a bug which they think can be fixed. It seems to be hard to imagine that what they take for a bug is part of Hubzilla's concept, and it has often been part of the concept since the early days of Mistpark back in 2010, almost six years before Mastodon came out. I think over the next days and weeks, Hubzilla will increasingly be considered not only weirdly different, but disturbingly different. Along with that, more and more Mastodon users will become aware of the "atrocities" from a Mastodon point of view which Hubzilla users commit in the Fediverse, and which they justify with their different culture. Enormously long posts, text formatting, quotes, quote-posts, as if it's all the most normal thing in the world. Which, for Hubzilla users, it is. In the near future, Mastodon will likely produce two more forms of drama. One is strong opposition against nomadic identity anywhere in the Fediverse, not so much because it's "un-Mastodon-like", but because it's expected to be used in malicious ways. The other one is increasing opposition against Hubzilla itself and more and more calls for Fediblocking it in its entirety, along with all Mastodon or otherwise Fediverse instances that don't Fediblock all Hubzilla hubs. All because it's got that disturbing stuff like nomadic identity and huge posts well over 500 characters and quote-posts with no opt-out for anyone. And because more and more Mastodon users become aware of it. I hope it won't happen, but I can't exclude it. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland I've updated the guide for mesh clothes for Ruth2 in my Ruth2 and Roth2 wiki. Some changes: Kaydi Rose Designs is a new entry. I've also added the fashion store I run at Nautilus Anchorage Landing in OSgrid; it currently mostly serves as another Deva Moda backup store plus some hard-to-acquire additional Taarna Welles footwear. I've still got two floors to fill, though. The Great Canadian Grid is gone again, so the two shops there were removed. Astralia ShoppingCity lost the retextured Clutterfly and Damien Fate content, so the shops there were removed, too. Birch Grove is now Birch Grove Winter and currently inaccessible. I've changed one shop that's at all four Birch Groves to Birch Grove Spring and suspended the other two. That said, Jamie Wright/Anna Cooper has a new sim in the making which will permanently offer stuff from at least one of these shops. Shopaholic was torn down and completely rebuilt quite a while ago. Sabi no longer offers her textured Damien Fate clothes. Thus, Shopaholic was removed. The Public World went offline by the turn of the year with no announcement. I'll keep Loru Destiny's shop at the TPW-Mall suspended until things clear up. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #OpenSim #OpenSimulator #Metaverse #VirtualWorlds #RuthAndRoth #Ruth2 #VirtualClothing #VirtualFashion npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @wakest @Johannes Ernst URLs are usually the safest bet. However, there are cases in which a Webfinger ID is actually required, e.g. when searching for certain actors in order to follow them. And even these aren't always the same: The ActivityPub/microblogging side of the Fediverse uses IDs with a leading @ whereas Friendica and its descendants have been expecting no leading @ for 14 years now. #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland A meme post can be accessible by having a sufficiently detailed description of the image and explanation of the meme in the post itself short enough for Mastodon users to be willing to read it (500 characters or fewer) Choose one. Only one. You can't have both. #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Accessibility #A11y #AltText #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #500Characters #CharacterCount npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst Even more than like many seem to believe the Fediverse is mastodon.social, everyone believes that Jitsi Meet is only meet.jit.si. That it's open-source but still a centralised monolith. But it isn't. Here is a very good list of community-run public instances, just about every last one of which is better than meet.jit.si. #Jitsi #JitsiMeet npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Danie van der Merwe Well, either Bluesky had the same mindset as Diaspora* back then. Be decentralised internally, but a walled garden towards the outside world. Diaspora* would still be isolated without Friendica's tedious work back in the day, and Bluesky wants to be the same. Yes, with not even only a public API, but laying the whole protocol open. Either that, or Bluesky just wanted to draw some attention to itself in the wake of the Mastodon hype and therefore announced decentralisation, albeit with its own protocol. And with features on top which they imply having invented, but which have been around since 2011 (Zot protocol). "Bluesky is Twitter without Musk, it'll be decentralised like Mastodon, and it'll have better decentralisation than Mastodon!" Only that they've now discovered that actually going all the way in decentralisation as announced is a) difficult and b) not worth it anyway, considering Bluesky's success without decentralisation. Unless, of course, this has all been a ruse to begin with, and Bluesky has never intended to go full decentral. Also, it's obvious that, like Threads, Bluesky doesn't know anything about the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. If they did, they would have also known: If they lay their protocol open, some third party will make use of it. And if Friendica can federate with something, it probably will, because that's part of what it stands for. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Diaspora* #Bluesky npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland Many Mastodon users assume that everything in the Fediverse at least works just like Mastodon. However, especially Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) work vastly differently from Mastodon; when it comes to content warnings, disturbingly so for Mastodon users. Since this is targetted at Mastodon users, I'll explain it in a thread. 1/11 #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #CW #CWs #ContentWarning #ContentWarnings #CWMeta #ContentWarningMeta npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst "The Metaverse" as in new 3-D virtual world projects of the 2020s in general? Or "The Metaverse" as in... "Metaverse" and "The Metaverse" are registered trademarks of Meta Platforms, Inc. All rights reserved. ...as in "Zuckerberg's Metaverse" as in "Facebook's Metaverse" as in "Meta's Metaverse" as in Horizons? Jupiter Rowland schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Tue, 09 Jan 2024 22:02:29 +0100Stop calling it "The Metaverse" already! Can everyone please with a cherry on top stop referring to Meta's virtual worlds as "the Metaverse"? They're called "Horizons"! Zuckerberg did not invent the Metaverse. Zuckerberg did not even invent the term; Neal Stephenson did in 1991. A Second Life in-world expo in the year 2007 was called "Metaverse". And the OpenSim community has been using the word "Metaverse" on a daily base down to grid names before 2010, too. Thanks from someone who has been in OpenSim and thus known and used the term "Metaverse" in 2020 already in behalf of everyone in Second Life, OpenSim and all other virtual worlds that already existed before 2022. P.S.: Second Life did not shut down in 2008 nor in 2009 either. #Meta #Horizons #HorizonWorlds #HorizonWorldsIsNotTheMetaverse #Metaverse #TheMetaverse #SecondLife #OpenSim #OpenSimulator #VirtualWorlds #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost Oh, and by the way, a finding of mine for those who still think Zuck was the first to slap "Metaverse" on an actual real 3-D world: Jupiter Rowland schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Tue, 09 Jan 2024 23:13:36 +0100"Metaverse". Used in OpenSim since 2007. Something for those who think Mark Zuckerberg has invented the term "Metaverse" in 2021. OSgrid, the oldest OpenSimulator grid (est. 2007), is referring to itself as "The Open Source Metaverse". Guess what? It has taken over that slogan from OpenSim itself, and OpenSim has described itself as such in 2007 already. Metropolis, the first German grid (est. 2008), boldly used the full name "Metropolis Metaversum" until it was officially shut down in summer 2022. It already did so as early as 2008. Since I started out in Metropolis on April 30th, 2020, I was in something called Metaverse almost a year and a half before Zuckerberg used that term. Another fun fact: The virtual worlds/virtual reality news site Hypergrid Business has named its OpenSim category "Metaverse" as early as 2010. #OpenSim #OpenSimulator #Metaverse #VirtualWorlds #Metropolis #OSgrid For the record: Yes, I know it was Neal Stephenson who coined that term in 1991 already. #Meta #Horizons #HorizonWorlds #HorizonWorldsIsNotTheMetaverse #Metaverse #TheMetaverse #SecondLife #OpenSim #OpenSimulator #VirtualWorlds #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 I'm not a dev, I don't know what makes a website work for them. Besides, the website will be utterly worthless for anyone who hasn't even heard the name Hubzilla or of Hubzilla's mere existence. How should such people even search for a term which they've never heard or read in their lives? npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 It would be much easier to code a HZ addon and work on a nice and fitting theme but DEVs do not get it and start a completely new project because they do not tread HZ as the one Unix operating system of their choice. Why is that the case ? Possible reason #1: They've never heard of Hubzilla. The most likely reason. Possible reason #2: They've only ever heard the name, but they don't know what Hubzilla is and what could be done with it. Including expanding it with third-party apps. Possible reason #3: "Not worth it, nobody uses Hubzilla anyway." npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst Maybe Mastodon could come back to W3C and help re-energize? I sincerely hope not. The last thing the Fediverse needs is Mastodon assuming control over all other projects by officially assuming direct control over the official ActivityPub standard. For example, Mastodon could dictate other projects to remove features that Mastodon doesn't have and thus kill all incentives to use these alternatives by having the ActivityPub standard re-written in such a way that everything that Mastodon doesn't do becomes "non-standard". On the other hand, Mastodon isn't even interested in being standard-compliant. Mastodon can use its deliberate, intentional incompatibilities to everything else to make everything else look bad in comparison. And it actually works. People flock back from places like Akkoma, Friendica and the Forkeys because they aren't enough "like Mastodon". Sabotaging connections between Mastodon and the non-Mastodon Fediverse adds to this. Don't forget that the Fediverse didn't start with Mastodon, and Rochko invented neither the Fediverse nor ActivityPub. The term "Fediverse" itself is four years older than Mastodon. If Eugen Rochko and Mastodon shall have a saying in the development of the W3C standard, then Mike Macgirvin, experienced protocol designer and creator of the DFRN, Zot and Nomad protocols as well as their respective projects, shall have just as much of a saying without his suggestions being constantly blocked out of principle. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #ActivityPub #Fediverse #Mastodon #W3C npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland Mastodon might introduce a "proprietary", home-brew "No quote-toots allowed" flag outside the ActivityPub standard that probably won't be documented anywhere. Just like their "sensitive image" flag, but even more critical. And if that happens, all Fediverse projects that have a quote-post/quote-boost/quote-tweet/quote-toot/share feature will have to have that flag reverse-engineered from Mastodon's source code and implemented a functionality that greys out the corresponding button under "no quote-toot" posts. And all their instances will have to upgrade to a version that fully supports that flag before Mastodon rolls out that flag. Or else Mastodon will defederate all their instances for being non-compliant. This will at least affect Friendica and everything that can be traced back to it, including Hubzilla and (streams), as well as Misskey and everything that can be traced back to it, including Firefish whose development is dead and dozens upon dozens of other Forkeys. If this actually comes, and if it's enforced immediately after release with no grace period, Mastodon could just as well fully be defederated from the rest of the Fediverse due to being incompatible. It'd cause a rift between Mastodon and the non-Mastodon Fediverse anyway because the former would have a requirement for federation which the latter is incapable of fulfilling. 🇺🇸 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 🐧 🥦 schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Fri, 05 Jan 2024 14:44:40 +0100 #QuotePosts are coming to #Mastodon. It is on the #RoadMap of #features to implement. Here is a #FeatureRequest to opt out of quote posts. Please vote: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/25735 Here is an interesting article about research on quote posts or #QuoteTweets https://absolutelymaybe.plos.org/2023/01/12/quote-tweeting-over-30-studies-dispel-some-myths/ #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuotedShares https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/111/703/645/347/006/412/original/df7e2b5f0b8f3c4a.png npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Shoq Well, something is already happening, and more will happen this year. Much of it will stay unnoticed by most Mastodon users, though, because just none of it will happen on Mastodon. Here's an attempt at a prognosis: If anything, Mastodon itself will develop further away from the rest of the Fediverse. But this rest of the Fediverse is growing stronger, and it doesn't necessarily have to go on aping what Mastodon does, especially not if it breaks the ActivityPub standard. We may reach a point at which lack of compatibility between Mastodon and the rest of the Fediverse can finally be blamed on Mastodon. And we may reach it this year. The most obvious change visible to Mastodon's eyes is probably happening around the Forkeys. Firefish, 2023's shooting star of the Fediverse, may join FoundKey in Fediverse Heaven unless Kainoa resurfaces. Whether or not this happens, the legacy is already being taken over by the Misskey forks Sharkey and Catodon and the former Firefish fork Iceshrimp which has been rebased to more up-to-date Misskey itself. None of the three aim to be minimalist projects. Hubzilla has a hot year ahead of it, at least I hope so. The Hubzilla Association has been founded recently, taking care of organisation, publicity etc. Its very own President is working on his own third-party advancements, especially new UIs, both general-purpose and specialised AFAIK. A blog-style UI is in development elsewhere. I'd be surprised if none of them saw the light of day this year. Not to mention main dev Mario's own plans for Hubzilla 9 which may come more quickly if the Association manages to reel in a few more devs. And then there's (streams), as unnoticed by the Mastodon crowd as Hubzilla. Mike not only wants to turn its backend inside-out and rework it entirely, but he has already begun. Knowing Mike and how fast he is, (streams) may be even more awesome than it is already now before summer. So, what I'd really like to see is something that, while highly unlikely, might catch the attention of not few Mastodon users, namely Mike's proposals being officially accepted into the ActivityPub standard, including but not limited to nomadic identity. Mastodon wouldn't adopt any of them if this happened, at least not right away. But the Forkeys certainly would. If they managed a way to go nomadic without adopting the channel model from Hubzilla and (streams), they'd have another big advantage over Mastodon. Enough stories by Forkey users of how they survived the sudden death of their home instance because they had at least one clone, and more and more Mastodon users would be sold, especially those who had to "move" manually because their home had announced its shutdown or simply vanished. But again, this is unlikely to happen. More realistically, third-party add-ons for (streams) being developed, and be it Hubzilla apps being forked and ported. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forkeys #Firefish #Sharkey #Catodon #Iceshrimp npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Shoq Well, @Johannes Ernst mentioned that there have only so few developers joined the Fediverse when it started to grow so quickly. And I've explained why. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland tl;dr: Hubzilla has had at least some of this for over a decade now. And it won't replace any of it with a new standard tailor-made for Mastodon. @silverpill If you look past projects based on ActivityPub and at projects that have ActivityPub as an additional protocol, some of this already exists. - Data portability. In my opinion, this is the most important problem. I'm in favor of FEP-ef61, which also solves identity portability and unlocks many new features. Exists in the shape of nomadic identity. Invented by @Mike Macgirvin 🖥️ in 2011 with his Zot protocol and first deplayed in 2012 with the Red Matrix, nowadays known as Hubzilla. Also available on (streams), Mike's current project at the end of a string of forks from Hubzilla, now based on the Nomad protocol. Mike would like to see nomadic identity and other special features of the Zot and Nomad protocols included in the ActivityPub protocol. He has actually submitted a number of proposals for this. They were all rejected. Even though he is a protocol developer first and foremost, and he has both created and worked on more Fediverse protocols than anyone else, so he should be considered competent. Nomadic identity with ActivityPub won't come unless either Evan Prodromou and the W3C commission cave in and allow Mike's suggestions, or someone re-invents the wheel from scratch in a way that's utterly incompatible to Hubzilla and (streams). And it won't come to Mastodon unless Eugen Rochko can imply that Mastodon has had it first. And there will never be a nomadic identity standard that meets Mike's requirements as well as Eugen's wishes. - End-to-end encryption. MLS has become a standard, and it would be wise to adopt it. Issue 3 at fediverse-ideas provides a good overview of what we have at the moment (not much). Some variation of FEP-ae97 is likely needed to make end-to-end encryption work. AFAIK, all three of Mike's still existing projects, Friendica from 2010, Hubzilla from 2012/2015 and (streams) from 2021, have it. Optionally, but still. I think Friendica actually advertises military-grade encryption. - Plugins. Something like Pleroma MRF, but cross-platform (e.g. Wasm-based). Also, pluggable timeline algorithms. Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) have had support for add-ons, including third-party add-ons, plus a number of official add-ons since their respective inceptions. If you want a cross-platform add-on standard, I hope you don't expect these three to throw their own standards over board in favour of the new standard. Otherwise, good luck developing a replacement for Pubcrawl that makes Zot-based Hubzilla compatible with ActivityPub while working on ActivityPub-based Mastodon just the same. Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) rely on add-ons for all federation beyond their respective base protocols (DFRN, Zot, Nomad). - Groups. We have several competing standards for groups: FEP-1b12, FEP-400e, Mastodon developers are working on their own standard. It would be nice to converge on a single standard, that also supports private groups. Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) have had support for discussion groups/forums since their respective inception. On Friendica, a group is a user account with special settings; on Hubzilla and (streams), it's a channel with special settings. In addition, especially Hubzilla and (streams) have access permission control on a level that most people for whom the Fediverse is only ActivityPub couldn't imagine in their wildest dreams. All three can be used by users from all over the Fediverse already now. Good luck forcing Friendica to give up its 13-year-old standard that's used by Fediverse News, just to name one, and Hubzilla to give up its 11-year-old standard that blows everything else but what (streams) does out of the water. Good luck forcing them to adopt something inferior. On the other hand, good luck forcing Lemmy and /kbin to switch to a wholly different standard. Don't forget that these two exist as well. And good luck having the Fediverse outside of Hubzilla and (streams) adopt both server-side and client-side OpenWebAuth. And I'm not even talking about how different Fediverse projects handle threads differently. Mastodon has a Twitter-like thread structure: many posts, tied together with mentiones. Just about everything that's built on ActivityPub has taken this over. Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) have a Facebook/blog/Tumblr-like thread structure: one post, the start post, and many comments which aren't posts. It's similar on Lemmy and /kbin which are Reddit clones, only that they don't allow thread starters to moderate their own threads. - Quoting. FEP-e232 is a proposed standard, but most fediverse applications still use non-standard properties. Mastodon developers are trying to invent something completely different. This is something that almost the whole Fediverse has implemented, save for Mastodon. And again, Friendica has had quotes since its inception in 2010, almost six years before Mastodon was launched (which, by the way, federated with Friendica and Hubzilla on the spot). Hubzilla has had quotes since 2012, inherited from Friendica. Their way of quoting is dead-simple: BBcode. [quote][/quote] (streams) supports Markdown and HTML in addition to BBcode, but otherwise it's the same. Oh, and by the way: Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) have also supported quote-posts a.k.a. quote-tweets a.k.a. quote-toots a.k.a. quote-boosts from their very beginnings. - Markets. So far there's only one server implementation capable of processing payments. At least two. Hubzilla has a payment add-on, too. It isn't installed on all hubs, but it's there. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CWFedisplaining #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #ActivityPub #Friendica #DFRN #Hubzilla #Zot #Streams #(streams) #Nomad #Lemmy #kbin #/kbin #NomadicIdentity #OpenWebAuth #Group #Groups #Forum #Forums #Quote #Quotes #Encryption #E2EE #E2EEncryption npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Shoq @Johannes Ernst I think hopes were high last year that the Twitter Migration would lure more tech-savvy geeks into the Fediverse, seeing as they were its initial target audience. Instead, the Fediverse got millions of phone-wielding tech illiterates who simply have noped away from Musk. People who actually still feel there's too much tech talk and especially too much talk about Linux going on in the Fediverse. People who wouldn't even have come here, hadn't they been railroaded to their first home instance and mollycoddled into believing the Fediverse is only that one instance, just to let them find out what the Fediverse really is after they've settled in. In the meantime, the geeks have barely heard of the Fediverse because nobody in their filter bubble is talking about it. Those who have may still be sceptical that something like the Fediverse could work, and since they know better, it probably doesn't anyway. Many have left social networks/social media altogether because "social media" equals the big corporate American silos plus TikTok in their minds, and again, many are completely unaware that free, open-source, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised alternatives a) exist, b) work and c) are used by someone. Those who haven't cling to their accounts on 𝕏 and Instagram because "but muh thousands of followers, but muh weekly likes." Last but not least, I think especially the newest generation of developers can mostly only develop mobile apps anymore. Another reason why we got a deluge of new "Mastodon and whatever else happens to work with this, idk and idc" iOS apps while server projects are struggling to find devs. #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Fediverse npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Jürgen Hubert @Roni Laukkarinen Misskey is chock-full of Japanese users. In fact, Misskey itself is a Japanese project, and the majority of Misskey users is Japanese. Even Misskey's stats show that with its up-and-down in posts per hour: Activity drops when Japan is asleep. It's just that the language barrier separates the Japanese Misskey users from the rest of the Fediverse. That's why you don't use them. #Fediverse #Misskey #Japan npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland What all the discussions about whether or not to block Threads reveals is a very common attitude on Mastodon: "I want my preference to be the default setting for everybody because having to configure something makes Mastodon too complicated!" Or even: "I want my preference to be hard-coded for everybody because adding one more setting makes Mastodon too complicated!" I guess it isn't rare for either to go along with wanting the whole Fediverse to be either Mastodon proper or exactly like vanilla Mastodon. Maybe even exactly like Mastodon 3.x before certain features that are common everywhere else in the Fediverse were introduced to Mastodon such as full-text search, displaying text formatting or displaying quotes. Because it's so hard to wrap your mind around there being differences between Mastodon on one side and stuff like Firefish, Friendica or Hubzilla on the other side. #Fediverse #Mastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #Threads #Meta #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #MetaMeta npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst This is not Death Note by Meta, is it? npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland Found a bug already. When you scroll up so the title picture becomes visible, the content below the top menu slips upward and partly covers the top menu. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Takako 🐀 @Bryan 🏳️🌈 Mastodon The primary topic of my channel is a very visual medium: 3-D virtual worlds. It shouldn't be interesting for blind or visually-impaired people at all. And as far as I know, I don't have a single connection (= follower) who is not sighted and still interested in that kind of stuff. Nonetheless, I put a huge effort into writing image descriptions. Such a huge effort actually that I don't post pictures more than once or maybe twice a month, if at all. I do that for people who may happen upon my posts on some federated timeline out there. Blind or visually-impaired users who, for some reason, may actually be curious about virtual worlds. Sighted users who are, but who understandably need a whole lot of description and explanation to get my pictures. Blind or visually-impaired users who may not be interested in virtual worlds per se, but who still want to know what my pictures look like and what the stuff in my pictures looks like. And lastly the self-appointed Fediverse police who, I guess, even complain about pictures with no or insufficient description when they find them on their federated timelines. #AltText #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @KubikPixel™ Kommt ganz drauf an, was man will. Die beste direkte Alternative dürfte #Firefish ex #CalcKey sein, das #Mastodon in Features weit voraus ist. #Volltextsuche hat Mastodon gerade erst eingeführt, so daß die mangels brauchbarer Indizes noch gar nicht richtig nutzbar ist. Firefish hatte sie schon immer, weil auch #Misskey sie schon immer hatte. #Textformatierungen und #Zitate konnten Firefish und Misskey meines Wissens auch schon immer. Mastodon kann beides nur anzeigen, während Firefish sogar Textformatierungen erzeugen kann, die Mastodon nicht anzeigen kann. Oder Zeichenlimits beim Schreiben von Posts. Mastodon kann nur 500 Zeichen. Für mehr muß der Admin so tief in die Software einsteigen, daß man fast schon von einem Fork reden könnte. Firefish kann standardmäßig 3000 Zeichen, was der Admin meines Wissens auf der Oberfläche einstellen, also noch erhöhen kann. Zugegeben, beide hacken #AltText rigoros bei 1500 Zeichen ab. Last but not least unterstützt Firefish meines Wissens die Mastodon-API, sollte also gute Unterstützung durch Mastodon-Apps haben bis darauf, daß man mit Apps, die nur für Mastodon entwickelt werden, auch fast nur das machen kann, was Mastodon kann. #Friendica ist natürlich noch mächtiger. Es hat Zeichenlimits in den Zigtausenden, es unterstützt wohl noch mehr Formatierungen, es hat einen Filehoster eingebaut, es hat einen öffentlichen Kalender eingebaut, man kann Konten als moderierte Gruppen/Foren einrichten usw. Und es hat mit all dem schon Erfahrungein seit 2010. Der Hauptnachteil dürfte aber sein, daß es weiter von Mastodon entfernt ist als Firefish. Es gibt mehr, was anders ist und anders läuft. Was man auf Mastodon gelernt oder von Twitter mitgenommen hat, kann man auf Friendica eigentlich gleich wieder vergessen. Posts schreibt man nicht wie Tweets, sondern wie Blogposts. Bilder werden nicht als Dateien angehängt, sondern woanders hochgeladen (meistens im eingebauten Dateispeicher) und irgendwo im Text eingebettet. Alt-Text ist kein separates Feld, sondern muß per Hand in den BBcode eingeflochten werden. Ein Content-Warning-Feld gibt's nicht, aber eins für den Titel und eins für die Zusammenfassung, wobei sich letzteres dann als dasselbe wie Content Warnings auf Mastodon entpuppt. Direktnachrichten gehen nicht mit @ und Rechteeinstellen, sondern mit !. Antworten sind nicht auch Posts, sondern Kommentare, und das ist ganz was anderes als ein Post. Und so weiter. Klar, Friendica kann mehr und einiges auch besser, aber Mastodon-Umsteiger müssen im Prinzip alles ganz neu lernen. #Streams von 2021 ist in Teilen noch mächtiger als Friendica (wobei ein Teil von Friendicas Features wieder fehlt), #Hubzilla von 2015 ist durchweg noch sehr viel mächtiger. Aber hier ist die Umgewöhnung noch heftiger, alleine schon, weil die eigene Identität nicht durchs Konto definiert ist, sondern in einem Kanal "containerisiert". Und man kann auf demselben Konto mehrere Kanäle mit separaten Identitäten haben. Und dann kommt noch #NomadischeIdentität oben drauf, auch wenn die eigentlich der feuchte Traum vieler Mastodon-Nutzer ist. Sie erfordert nur eben Um-die-Ecke-Denken. Hubzilla ist natürlich so ziemlich der ultimative Alleskönner. Es ist mehr als nur Friendica mit ein bißchen Extrazeugs, wobei vieles genauso funktioniert wie auf Friendica und somit ganz anders als auf Mastodon. Hubzilla ist ein "Social CMS", das einem neben Social Networking und Gar-nicht-so-Microblogging auch voll formatiertes Macroblogging bietet, das sich in der Funktion kaum vom Gar-nicht-so-Microblogging unterscheidet, außerdem einfache Websites, Wikis, Cloudspeicher mit WebDAV, CalDAV und CardDAV und so weiter und so fort. Oben drauf gibt's ein sehr detailliertes Rechtemanagement, das auch eng verzahnt ist mit #SingleSignOn durch #OpenWebAuth. Aber auf der einen Seite steht dieser gigantische Funktionsberg, und auf der anderen Seite steht die Benutzeroberfläche. An sich könnte die extrem flexibel sein, sie unterstützt Komplett-Themes, die für jeden Kanal individuell wählbar wären. In der Praxis gibt es aber nur noch ein Theme, das gepflegt wird. Das ist noch von 2012, wurde aus einem Friendica-Standardthema für die #RedMatrix umgebaut, hat sich seitdem kaum bis gar nicht verändert und hat mit Usability kaum etwas zu tun. Alternativen sind in der Mache, aber noch nicht offiziell verfügbar. Dazu kommt die Dokumentation. Die wurde geschrieben von Entwicklern, die nicht wußten, wie man Nichtentwicklern etwas erklärt, also z. B. ganz normalen Endnutzern, und liest sich streckenweise eher wie ein technisches Lastenhaft. Noch dazu ist sie zu erheblichen Teilen so hoffnungslos veraltet, daß sie überhaupt nicht nutzbar ist. Ach ja: Textformatierung gibt's. Textformatierung mit Klickibunti und Echtzeit-WYSIWYG gibt's nicht. Wer keinen BBcode kann, hat verloren, weil einem auch die Buttons nur BBcode in den Editor packen. Auch wenn zum Glück zumindest die BBcode-Implementation von Hubzilla ziemlich gut dokumentiert und halbwegs aktuell ist. (streams) hat nicht mehr den Funktionsumfang von Hubzilla. Das Ziel ist hier eigentlich nicht, von vornherein einen Alleskönner zu haben, sondern eine Codebasis, um daraus was feines Eigenes zu bauen. Die Oberfläche sieht ganz ähnlich aus, ist aber einen Tick zugänglicher, vielleicht auch deshalb, weil es vieles einfach nicht mehr gibt. Erleichternd dürfte für einige dazukommen, daß auf (streams) alles wahlweise mit BBcode, Markdown oder HTML formatiert werden kann, so daß man keinen BBcode lernen muß, wenn man schon Markdown kann. (streams) hat auch eine bessere Anbindung von #ActivityPub und Verbesserungen in der nomadischen Identität. Dafür kann es sich mit nichts anderem mehr verbinden, außer daß es immer noch RSS-Feeds erzeugt und E-Mail-Benachrichtigungen verschicken kann. Näher an Mastodon ist es damit aber nicht. Im Gegenteil: Verwirrend ist schon mal, daß es sich nicht um ein in sich geschlossenes Projekt mit Namen und Marke handelt. Es ist gar kein Projekt, sondern nur ein Code-Repository. Es hat auch keinen Namen und kein Logo. Es ist wirklich mit voller Absicht namenlos. Der Name "Streams" und das Wellenlogo gehören beide zum Repository, nicht zur Software. Daher auch die Klammern um den "Namen". Das heißt auch, daß die einzelnen Instanzen keine einheitliche Projektidentität haben. Mastodon-Instanzen identifizieren sich alle als Mastodon. Hubzilla-Instanzen identifizieren sich alle als Hubzilla. (streams)-Instanzen identifizieren sich als irgendwas, weil man da selbst etwas eintragen kann und muß. Waitman Gobbles öffentliche Instanz namens Rumbly identifiziert sich beispielsweise nicht als "Streams", sondern als "-get". Folge: Es ist nicht möglich, (streams)-Instanzen automatisiert zu crawlen, zu identifizieren und aufzulisten. Das wird noch zusätzlich dazu erschwert, daß mit ebenso voller Absicht die Statistikausgabe aus (streams) komplett entfernt wurde. Die einschlägigen Projekt- und Instanz-Listenseiten fürs #Fediverse listen allesamt keine (streams)-Instanzen, und das werden sie auch nicht, weil das zum einen nicht gewollt und zum anderen wegen der uneinheitlichen Identifikation der Instanzen gar nicht möglich ist. Folge: (streams)-Instanzen zu finden, ist Detektivarbeit. Das dürfte auch erklären, warum es bei (streams) einen noch höheren Anteil an persönlichen Instanzen gibt, zumal es kaum öffentliche Instanzen mit offener Registrierung gibt. Ein gemeinsamer Nachteil von Hubzilla und (streams) ist: Smartphone-Apps kann man vergessen. Für Hubzilla gibt's eine, die seit 2018 nicht mehr gepflegt wird, also mehr als die Hälfte der Zeit, die es Hubzilla gibt. Die funktioniert inzwischen gar nicht mehr. Und auch die hat den Fokus nur aufs Mikroblogging gelegt. (streams) wird wohl nie eine Smartphone-App haben, eben weil es kein in sich geschlossenes Projekt mit fixer Projektidentität ist. Beide unterstützen nicht die Mastodon-API, soweit ich weiß. Also ist man so oder so auf den Webbrowser angeweisen. Andererseits sind beide Projekte so mächtig, daß es kaum möglich sein dürfte, ihren jeweils kompletten Funktionsumfang in eine dann immer noch leicht bedienbare Smartphone-App zu pressen. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Chris Messina Sounds like something which IIRC #Friendica has had since its inception or at least for ages. I know that #Hubzilla has it. Basically, you have hashtags in the post. Hubzilla converts them into local links so that they always link to that hashtag on the instance the post came from rather than that it's being viewed on. On top of that, there are categories in a separate field. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland Das kannst du alles vergessen. Die Leute wollen keine Alternativen. Die wollen nur Twitter ohne Musk. 2022 war Mastodon die einzige ihnen bekannte Alternative, und die meisten von ihnen haben bis heute nie was gehört von Akkoma, Firefish, Friendica usw. Es ist ihnen auch scheißegal. Du kannst ihnen tausendmal sagen, daß das Fediverse nicht nur Mastodon ist, sie werden es nicht einmal versuchen zu verstehen. Daß Mastodon dezentral ist, ist ihnen nicht scheißegal. Vielmehr macht das alles viel zu kompliziert. Aber da mußten sie durch. Gab ja nichts anderes. Deshalb geiern sie doch jetzt alle auf Bluesky-Einladungen. Bluesky verspricht ja tatsächlich, buchstäblich Twitter ohne Musk zu sein. Inklusive Prä-Musk-Twitter-Kultur. Betrieben von einem gewinnorientierten Unternehmen, das von einem Millardär gegründet wurde. Noch dazu dem Twitter-Gründer. Ich würde sagen, wenn Bluesky seine Ankündigung wahr macht und dezentral wird, geht denen noch ganz schön der Arsch auf Grundeis. Und ich würde auch sagen, genau deshalb bleibt Bluesky ein zentralistischer Silo. Denn das ist es, was die Leute tatsächlich wollen. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 But not in this particular case. There is no editor for Hubzilla wikis anywhere on the default Mastodon Web UI. There is no editor for Hubzilla wikis anywhere in the official Mastodon iOS or Android app. There is no editor for Hubzilla wikis anywhere in any other Mastodon app or on any alternative Mastodon Web UI. Mastodon users can't edit Hubzilla wikis, not because they can't be given the permissions, but because they don't have the tools. Same for webpages. What should a Mastodon user possibly edit a Hubzilla webpage with? The same text box that they write their toots with? Or CalDAV calendars. Even if you could give a Mastodon user permission to edit one of your CalDAV calendars, they won't be able to do that because Mastodon itself doesn't have a calendar at all. I mean, Mastodon probably doesn't even show events from public Hubzilla calendars on its timelines because it doesn't understand events. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland #Hubzilla has flash cards, too. But they aren't sent to connections AFAIK. That wouldn't make much sense. Hence they don't federate. And I don't know any #Fediverse project based on #ActivityPub that supports flash cards. It wouldn't make much sense to send them to, what, #Mastodon. Just like it wouldn't make much sense to allow a Mastodon user to edit your wikis if no Mastodon Web interface and no Mastodon app has a wiki editing UI. But #Streams, as it is, isn't a CMS. (streams) doesn't have webpages, it doesn't have articles, it doesn't have wikis either. It might be possible to port that stuff from Hubzilla to (streams), but even then, it'd have to be converted from Zot6 to Zot12. Remember that you can give connections permission to edit your webpages and wikis. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 Either they've only just arrived. It'll take them two months to learn that the #Fediverse isn't only #MastodonSocial and five months to learn that #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse. Or it was hard enough already to do the switch from Twitter to #Mastodon and learn all the differences. Learning "yet another app" would be too tedious. Or it's too difficult, if not out-right impossible, to move to another project and take all your followers with you. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 So you are saying all the talk and efforts about UX/UI brings us not closer to the essential points and is actually distracting us... No, I'm saying that people come from #Mastodon straight to #Hubzilla in expectation of "Mastodon with #RichText and a 50,000-character limit". Just like they came from Twitter to Mastodon because they were promised "literally Twitter without Elon Musk". Then they land flat on their faces. Hubzilla turns out to be nothing like Mastodon. It handles vastly differently. Nothing is where they'd expect it. No content warnings (because Hubzilla calls them summaries). No UI element for alt-text. It doesn't have an app. Mastodon apps don't work. And so forth. Hell, 95% of them even fail to connect to other Mastodon users because nobody tells them that they have to turn #Pubcrawl on first! Verdict: Hubzilla sucks. And they're back to their cosy little Mastodon which was hard enough to get used to already. No ambitions to learn something wholly new yet again. I still remember when #Friendica mimicked the UIs of Facebook and #Diaspora*. Maybe Hubzilla needs to adopt this again with UIs that mimic Facebook, Twitter, Bluesky, Threads and the most popular Mastodon Web interfaces. Not only in looks, but even in handling as far as that's possible. just did some studies about the term #FederatedSocialWeb and will post it in a new thread The #FederatedSocialWeb was: Diaspora* for the clueless hipsters who had never heard of Friendica, and who were absolutely convinced that those four guys were the first to develop a decentralised social network Friendica for the geeks, the cool kids and alternative left-wing activists who had to use something obscure so that the authorities wouldn't discover their posts too easily the #RedMatrix for those few daredevils who a) knew about it, b) were willing to try it and c) actually had access to a Red Matrix instance npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 Well, first they had a problem with #Mastodon not having the exact same UX as X. Then they had one with #Hubzilla not having the exact same UX as Mastodon. Also, sure, today's #Fediverse is nothing like the old #FederatedSocialWeb. 10 years ago, the Federated Social Web was for geeks plus left-wing activists. #Friendica was the centre of the world. We didn't know whether we should pity or laugh at #Diaspora. And everyone was on desktop #Linux, and #Apple was evil incarnate. Today, the Fediverse is for just about everyone. Mastodon is not only the centre of the world to the point that many spend up to half a year believing it is the Fediverse proper. People are pining for #Bluesky invites. And everyone's on an #iPhone and gushing over the #VisionPro. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Strypey Even that will require the involvement of all devs. You can't decide upon a new nomenclature behind the backs of the #Hubzilla main dev @Mario Vavti and the #Streams main dev (and #Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) creator) @Mike Macgirvin, then put proverbial guns on their chests and force them to adapt that nomenclature or else. Especially Mario will not let anyone do that to Hubzilla, and Mike most likely wouldn't either. And @Erlend Sogge Heggen only mentions #Lemmy communities and #/kbin magazines which are essentially the same, plus he mentions group functionality being planned for three more projects based on #ActivityPub. That's all. He doesn't say a word about how to handle or even integrate groups/forums as they already exist on Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams). He doesn't mention Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams) at all. It seems as if he's still completely unaware of their existence, much less of their existing group/forum functionality. All in spite of Fediverse News being a popular public Friendica group with lots and lots of #Mastodon users as members. @Johannes Ernst npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Strypey @Johannes Ernst I wouldn't bet on total standardisation of #groups on all #Fediverse projects. Sure, #Lemmy and #/kbin could approach each other further. But even #Friendica (the original Facebook challenger) on the one hand and #Hubzilla and #Streams on the other hand handle group functionality differently, also because they've got different sets of user permission parameters. And these projects were all started by the same guy and are part of the same family. Since Hubzilla and (streams) both won't approach other projects if that means giving up key features of their own and re-thinking how they themselves work, even standardisation between these three would mean that Friendica would have to become more like Hubzilla. The difference is even bigger between Lemmy//kbin on the one hand and Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams) on the other hand. A Lemmy community or a /kbin magazine is a specific piece of instance structure, like a sub-instance. On Friendica, a forum/group is a user account with specific settings. Likewise, on Hubzilla and (streams), a forum/group is a user channel with specific settings. If you want to fully standardise this, all you could possibly do is throw Lemmy and /kbin as they are now away and rebuild them as (streams) forks. If #Mastodon should join the fray, chances are that they'll re-invent the wheel and try to bully the rest of the Fediverse into doing everything the way they do them by going on pretending that nothing else but Mastodon exists out there. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst You should have chosen a different Lemmy instance. lemmy.world is completely overloaded, and your community keeps throwing errors or refusing to load altogether because of that. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @rabble @Fediverse Report Only halfway through it due to lack of time, but in that half, the only pre-#Mastodon, pre-#ActivityPub hint was a very brief mention of the #OStatus protocol and #StatusNet. And it doesn't sound like the other half would actually deal with anything between identi.ca and Mastodon. Then again, #Bluesky tries to convince us that the concept of #NomadicIdentity is their original pioneering creation, so naturally, they'd never admit that it was actually invented along with the #Zot protocol in 2011 and has been in use since the creation of the #RedMatrix in 2012 from which eventually #Hubzilla emerged. And the representatives of ActivityPub and #Nostr would never admit either that there are protocols and projects that are more powerful than theirs while also being older and having been in active use for longer. Interestingly, not even #Diaspora was mentioned. So basically, this isn't about the origins of the concept of open social media platforms and their largely unknown history prior to Mastodon. It's about the history of three specific platforms. Or should I continue listening, and what I think is missing is yet to come? npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @ChasMusic (he/him) I could do an #AltText blog post, and I wouldn't even need anything beyond Hubzilla for it. However, I couldn't link to it below the image. That is, I could, at least here on #Hubzilla and for users of several other projects. But for the huge majority of #Mastodon users, the link would be entirely elsewhere because Mastodon can't display anything below images, save for other images that actually belong further up the same post. So this method is out of question for any posts with more than one picture because I can't draw connections between links in and pictures below the text that Mastodon users could see. And besides, I've got the feeling that many Mastodon users avoid links like the plague. They're using mobile phones, they practically never use the Web browsers on those things, and the Web browser popping up is an utter nuisance to them. Last but not least, I'm pretty sure that many Mastodon users are opposed to the idea of having the description of an image in a wholly different place that even requires a different app to view, rather than having it readily and neatly available right before them in their Mastodon app. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Fediverse This is going out to both the #Threadiverse and, because I can't keep this from happening, the rest of the #Fediverse where I've mentioned this issue before three months earlier. In brief: I'm still not sure how much #AltText is optimal. And I tend to run into situations in which alt-text that describes everything in a picture will grow longer than any of you could possibly imagine in their wildest dreams. Here's my situation: I don't have a problem with writing a lot. Unlike most of you, I'm not on a phone. I'm on a desktop computer, and if I'm not, I'm on a laptop. I've always got a full-blown hardware keyboard, and I can touch-type with ten fingers. And I like to rant. I'm on #Hubzilla. This means virtually no limit in post length and especially virtually no limit in alt-text length. The only limiting factor would be how much alt-text the instances where my posts are viewed can display. #Mastodon has a hard cap at 1,500 characters, for example. I'm not the one to skimp on #accessibility rules unless they're technologically impossible for me to follow. I'd rather do too much than too little. This includes full transcriptions of all texts in a picture unless privacy issues speak against it, or unless I've got no way to source the original of a text anymore, and said text in the picture is ineligible even for me. Yes, I transcribe text that's one pixel high if I can get the original. When I post pictures, I don't always post them Instagram/Pixelfed-style, i.e. posts that are about this particular picture. Instead, I often use pictures to illustrate the post. Hubzilla gives me all necessary means to write full-blown blog posts with all bells and whistles as regular posts. Describing a picture in the visible part of a post when the post isn't about the picture is horribly bad style. Doing so when there are multiple pictures in one post, regardless of whether Mastodon puts them in the right places (which it doesn't), is even worse. I usually post pictures taken in #VirtualWorlds. In comparison with pictures taken in real-life, they have a much higher tendency to contain things that need to be described, often to both sighted and blind or visually-impaired users, because they simply don't know them, be it objects, be it locations. It's one thing if a picture was taken on Times Square, and it's something else if a picture was taken in a place of which maybe not even five people in the whole Fediverse even know that it exists. Thus, more text is needed. Now there are two schools of thoughts when it comes to alt-text. One: clear and concise alt-text. Only describe what's necessary in the context in which the picture is posted. Screen readers can't handle long alt-texts well. You can't navigate alt-text with most screen readers, i.e. you can't stop it somewhere, rewind it to a certain point and listen to parts of it once more. All you can do is let the screen reader rattle down the whole alt-text in one chunk. If you need to hear it again, you have to hear all of it again. The obvious downside of this is that most of the content of the image is lost to everyone who isn't sighted, and some is lost to those who can't identify it even by looking at it in that particular picture. Two: full description of absolutely everything in the picture plus explanation if necessary. Denying non-sighted people the chance to experience everything that's in a picture, and be it through words, can be considered ableist. Also, tiny details that are barely visible in the picture could be described so that sighted people can identify them. And besides, there's the idea that alt-text can help everyone understand what that is that they see (or don't see) in that picture if they're unfamiliar with them. As I've said, extensive image descriptions in the visible part of a post may be okay when the post is about the picture, but not when the picture illustrates the post and even less when there's more than one picture illustrating the post. Yes, this is a thing. Just read what @Stormgren wrote earlier this month. Stormgren schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Mon, 03 Jul 2023 18:20:44 +0200Alt-text doesn't just mean accessibility in terms of low -vision or no-vision end users. Done right also means accessibility for people who might not know much about your image's subject matter either. This is especially true for technical topic photos. By accurately describing what's in the picture, you give context to non-technical viewers, or newbies, as to exactly what they're looking at, and even describe how it works or why it matters. #AltText is not just an alternate description to a visual medium, it's an enhancement for everyone if you do it right. (So I can't find any prior post of mine on this, so if I've actually made this point before, well, you got to hear a version of it again.) And I'm actually waiting for Mastodon users to refuse to boost posts that contain pictures with insufficient alt-text. Many refuse to boost posts that contain pictures without alt-text already now. The obvious downside of it is: "DESCRIBE ALL THE THINGS" + lots and lots and lots of stuff in the picture + just about everything needs to be explained because nobody is familiar with any of it = alt-text the size of a rather long blog post. I've tried that with this picture (no embedding although I could because reasons). I've written a detailed alt-text. I've spent more than three hours in-world in a preserved, static copy of this place, researching and transcribing text where probably none of you would even know that there's text otherwise. The picture alone wasn't enough of a source for an alt-text that I would have deemed sufficient. Only description plus some transcriptions: 7,636 characters. Description plus everything transcribed, save for the big black panel in the middle background behind the tree which I couldn't transcribe because it no longer exists in-world, plus translations of everything that isn't English plus everything unfamiliar explained: 10,985 characters. If that panel had still existed in-world, and I could have transcribed it, I might have passed the 12,000-character mark. With an image description. As I've said, Hubzilla doesn't have a hard cap for alt-text length. In theory, it could handle and probably display alt-texts much longer than this. I don't know how it'd display an alt-text of that size in practice, whether it'd be scrollable, whether it'd have a time-out before anyone could read it fully etc. Mastodon, in the meantime, has the hard cap I've mentioned above which probably also cuts alt-texts coming in from outside. That's where most of my audience is. And screen reader users might have no other choice than to sit through their screen readers rambling down alt-text for more than five minutes in one go, especially if they could get a hold of the original alt-text instead of one cropped at the 1,500-character mark. Now, even though I'll probably kick off two separate threads, I'd like to read your thoughts about how detailed alt-text should be. #Accessibility #A11y #Inclusion #Inclusivity #InclusionMatters npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst "[T]hreading in Mastodon is actually pretty good" sounds like someone only knows Twitter and Mastodon. The Fediverse itself has projects that do threads much better because they don't tie them together from single, stand-alone posts. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Fediverse News The hottest topic in the #Fediverse right now has to be #Threads, formerly known as #P92 or #Barcelona, the alleged #Twitter killer by #Meta, and what'll happen when it federates with the rest of the Fediverse. So without further ado, here are my thoughts about this. So why did Meta announce Threads to include #ActivityPub? Well, it certainly wasn't because they needed a ready-to-use federation protocol. Threads itself will remain a centralised, proprietary, corporate silo with exactly one instance. I mean, when #Tumblr announced to include ActivityPub, this didn't come with the announcement that everyone will be able to run their own Tumblr instance, remember? It just meant that their silo will be able to connect to Mastodon & Co. and quit being a walled garden. It's more likely that Threads was planned to get ActivityPub support because at least the EU is going to force online services to become interoperable in some ways. And some big corporations are growing cautious of the expected "or else!" So if Meta wants to offer Threads in the EU, Threads will have to be able to connect to something not owned by Meta. So they've decided to include ActivityPub because a) it's ready-to-use, b) it's free-to-use, c) it already has lots of projects and instances and users to connect to, d) it's something Meta has heard of, and e) it isn't Dorsey's #ATproto. I mean, they could also have played it safe and included #OStatus just to have something they'd theoretically be able to connect to without running into nearly as many renitent netizens opposed to Meta. It'd still pass the #DigitalServicesAct. But they probably don't even know that OStatus exists. That said, I currently wouldn't be so certain that Threads will actually add ActivityPub. It has never been Threads' unique selling-point. That'd rather be Twitter-like microblogging without Elon Musk or Jack Dorsey at the helm plus one-click registration for Instagram users. Marc Zuckerberg has never wanted to have his own Mastodon. He has always wanted to have his own Twitter. And now that the real deal is on its deathbed, he finally can. If ActivityPub integration was actually only planned as appeasement towards the EU, it has become completely unnecessary when Threads blew a raspberry and flipped two birds at the #GDPR with its iOS app that phones all your most private data home to Threads and Instagram and Facebook to be sold to the highest bidder. Because of that, Meta is banned from offering Threads in the EU altogether. Why appease to the EU when you're banned there anyway? So there wouldn't be any reason to be surprised if ActivityPub never came to Threads. After all, #Bluesky has talked big about decentralisation and federation and even the "invention" of #NomadicIdentity (which was actually invented in 2011 and first implemented in 2012 on Red Matrix, known as #Hubzilla today). Bluesky was announced long before Threads. Bluesky was launched long before Threads. And just like Threads, it has yet to deliver. As of now, it's just another centralised, monolithic silo, and third-party developments are the only reason why it isn't entirely a walled garden. I guess even Jack Dorsey had to realise that it's complete non-sense to create a technological platform for decentralised social networking that's only compatible to itself, save for connectors developed by third parties without his consent. I guess he must have realised just how big and wide-spread the ActivityPub-based Fediverse is and how rapidly it's growing. Decentralising Bluesky now would be like introducing a replacement for e-mail that's completely incompatible with e-mail itself. In fact, I think that Dorsey had launched the Bluesky project and placed high bets on it before he even knew that the Fediverse existed. And when he found out about the Fediverse, there was no way back anymore. Not without being punished by his investors. Marc Zuckerberg, on the other hand, knew about the Fediverse when he greenlit Project 92, now known as Threads, for one of its earliest announced features was interoperability with the Fediverse via ActivityPub. That's another difference: He didn't want to compete with the Fediverse, he wanted to connect to it. Whether he actually will, now that one of the main perks of doing so has vanished due to Meta being Meta and the EU reacting accordingly, remains to be seen. But even if ActivityPub came to Threads, that wouldn't mean that Zuck embraces the Fediverse. He won't. Even if they all used ActivityPub, the Fediverse as we know it now would be direct competition for Threads. Threads won't tell its users about Mastodon, Akkoma, The Project Still Known As CalcKey, Pixelfed, Lemmy etc. That'd be like Microsoft officially acknowledging that Linux-based operating systems are nice, too, if installed stand-alone instead of Windows. That'd be like Apple officially publishing a list of the top five greatest Android phones with Samsung on #1. Threads won't tell its users how to migrate to another Fediverse instance. That'd be like Microsoft officially publishing a tutorial on how to wipe your hard drive and replace the Windows on your computer with Ubuntu. And Threads won't add migration functionality to elsewhere in the Fediverse either. That'd be like Microsoft installing an exporter for personal data on everyone's Windows machines on the next patch day that makes it easier for you to keep your data when replacing Windows with GNU/Linux on your machine. For a while after ActivityPub has been activated, practically nobody on Threads would make use of it, especially not to connect with users in the rest of the Fediverse. They simply won't know that this rest of the Fediverse exists, much less who exists there. If any connections will be established, they'll be in-bound. Even these first connections won't come to pass by someone discovering a cool Threads account in their Mastodon timeline. Instead, someone will stumble upon Threads accounts either because they're on Threads themselves or because the addresses of these Threads accounts are published somewhere on the Web, e.g. someone adding their Threads ID to their blog or their website. They'd end up connecting by copy-pasting that someone's Threads ID into their search field. After these first connections have been established, it will still take very very long for the Threads users to discover that there's a Fediverse beyond Threads. No, really. For comparison: Many of you came into the Fediverse through mastodon.social. And I dare say that a great deal of those of you did not know anything about decentralisation and instances and all that stuff at that point and instead believed that they had joined another centralised walled garden like Twitter. Someone has told me a while ago that some people who came in through mastodon.social took three months to even notice that Mastodon is decentralised, that many of the toots in their timelines come from someplace else than mastodon.social. It takes new Mastodon users even longer to discover that there's a Fediverse beyond Mastodon. From my experience, that's often three to six months. There are three major ways for Mastodon users to find that out. One, you stumble upon a post that mentions Fediverse projects that aren't Mastodon, and that mentions that they're Fediverse projects and connected to Mastodon. Two, you post something that implies or out-right claims that the Fediverse is only Mastodon, and someone comes and tells you otherwise in the comments. Three, you discover weird-looking posts in your timeline that can't possibly come from Mastodon with way over 500 characters, strange-looking mentions, strange-looking hashtags etc. If you inquire whoever wrote that post about it, they'll tell you they aren't on Mastodon, but on an instance of another project which is nonetheless connected to Mastodon. It'll be very similar on Threads, but on a much greater scale with a much bigger timeframe. I guess many Threads users may spend years without even encountering a post from outside. Most will spend many months. And I'm not talking about actually noticing that the post in question did not originate on Threads. Unless Threads will actually slam account IDs with non-Threads domains on them into its users' faces, I think one element that Threads users will notice will be hashtags which Threads doesn't have, but which I don't expect Threads to strip out entirely like Mastodon strips out any and all text formatting. Thread user: "Hey dumbass, this ain't Twitter, Threads doesn't have hashtags!" External user: "But Mastodon has them. I'm on Mastodon and not on Threads." Thread user: "What's Mastodon, and WTF are you doing on my timeline then?!" External user: "[Fediverse explanation noises]" And even this will only lead to one more Threads user knowing about the rest of the Fediverse. Out of hundreds of millions. The difference between mastodon.social and Threads is that new arrivals on mastodon.social are left uninformed about what Mastodon is and how it works to make on-boarding easier than if they were educated about decentralisation and instances and other Fediverse projects and then left to choose the project and the instance themselves. Threads users, on the other hand, are left believing that, beyond being a centralised silo, Threads is a walled garden with no connections to the outside world whatsoever. To be fair, it is one right now and will remain one for the foreseeable future. mastodon.social doesn't try to pretend to be a walled garden. And Mastodon itself only does so a little by hardly, if ever, acknowledging the rest of the Fediverse. If Threads users should actually set out to discover the rest of the Fediverse and make connections to there, the impression they get from the Fediverse won't be too positive. That's because two out of three Fediverse instances will be inaccessible to them due to having blocked Threads altogether. From the point-of-view of a Threads user who has always put full trust and faith into all Facebook/Meta products and never used anything decentralised before, believing that even e-mail is a Microsoft or Google or Yahoo! product, the Fediverse will appear as nothing but a bunch of entitled arseholes. It certainly won't help that the [Fediverse explanation noises] won't include, "This is all just hackish amateur stuff rather than professional corporate software development, and we're lightyears from your features, but it does its job." Instead, users from other Fediverse projects will mention ("brag about") the features that these other Fediverse projects have that Threads lacks. Hashtags, for example. Let me show you them. It gets even worse if someone on Threads happens upon someone on something else than Mastodon. In comparison with Akkoma, Threads pales more. In comparison with what's-still-but-not-for-much-longer-called-CalcKey, it pales even more. And now imagine what'd happen if someone on Threads met someone on Hubzilla. Or /kbin. "Whaddaya mean, you're talkin' to me from a Reddit clone?! How's that even possible?" Okay, so those Fediverse people aren't just entitled, they're also snooty braggarts who claim that their stuff that was developed with a budget of zero is allegedly better than Threads that was developed with a several-billion-dollar budget. Let's just say that even if the Threads users discovered the Fediverse beyond Threads by-and-by, they wouldn't be too keen on connecting to what's left of it that they can actually connect to. The biggest chances will be if it'll be possible on Threads to share Follow Friday posts from Mastodon in such a way that it isn't too obvious that they come from Mastodon. Since Mastodon mentions don't include domains, they might pretty well pass for mentioning Threads users, and the Threads community will believe that Follow Friday was invented on Threads. Also, out-right celebrities on George Takei's level of fame if they reside on instances that don't block Threads. But otherwise, no chance. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst The difference is that the "internal market" of the EU wants to get independent from #GAFAM. The "internal market" of the USA is GAFAM, full stop. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland Just a few reminders for #OpenSimulator #events this year: The first and oldest #OpenSim grid, #OSgrid, will most likely celebrate its 16th birthday next month, probably towards the end of the month. The exact dates and the schedule for #OSG16B have yet to be announced, though. The next date will be #OpenSimFest. Led by @Shelenn Ayres, #OSFest2023 is scheduled for September 15th to 30th and will feature events as well as (mostly commercial) merchants. See also here. Not much time to catch your breath until #HypergridInternationalExpo (official website) which will return on October 7th and 8th after six years. And again, the organisers @Thirza and @Mal Burns Opensim are in the Fediverse already. #HIE is basically the #OSCC for non-English speakers; otherwise, the concept is very similar. Speaking of which, we'll most likely have another OpenSimulator Community Conference this year. I expect #OSCC23 to take place in early December again, but this date is still TBA, too. #Metaverse #VirtualWorlds npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Tim Chambers @Johannes Ernst They won't. Extracting data from #Facebook by third-party apps has been forbidden since 2011, since not long after #Friendica one-sidedly and without Facebook's consent established bidirectional federation with Facebook. Why should #Meta allow free, decentralised social networking projects to extract any data from #P92 a.k.a. #Barcelona a.k.a. #Threads then, and be it by users manually exporting this data first? It'd be direct competition siphoning off data, just like back in 2011 when Facebook faced direct competition in the shape of Friendica which was designed with the intent purpose of being a Facebook alternative. Not to mention that the Facebook connector was designed with the intent purpose of siphoning users off Facebook and into Friendica. Oh, and if they let their users export their Threads data, there's no way they can create a technical barrier that only allows an import to #Mastodon. Many other #Fediverse projects could create importers for the same data. #Pixelfed, for example, which directly competes with #Instagram where a lot of this data will probably come from originally. Or, again, Friendica which still directly competes with Facebook. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst @Catherine Berry But if you want to introduce this absolutely mandatorily to the Fediverse, it will have to be added to at least four protocols: DFRN (Friendica) Zot (Zot/6) (Hubzilla) Nomad (Zot/11) ((streams)) ActivityPub (most of the rest) This would also require a total ban on running or federating with the now-EOL Zotlabs projects (Redmatrix, Osada, Zap, Misty, Roadhouse) because they and their underlying protocol Zot/8 will never introduce it. Also, by extension, since at least Friendica and Hubzilla also federate with GNU social and Diaspora*, the OStatus protocol and Diaspora*'s protocol will have to include this, too, because it might occur that someone on Mastodon sees a comment from Diaspora* on a post from Friendica. Or, vice versa, someone on Diaspora* sees a comment from Mastodon on a post from Friendica. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst Not so hypothetical, actually. I'm [email protected] on both hubs where my channel resides. If I were to add more clones, I'd still keep that ID unless I made one of the clones my new main. Granted, they're all #Hubzilla, but still. If #SSO were introduced across the Fediverse, the question would be if it wouldn't be too confusing if your PeerTube channel had an Akkoma handle. Then again, it could be useful to have a microblogging account with the same handle as a Write Freely blog which lacks built-in comments, so the microblogging account could serve as a comments section. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst Depends. If they're the same identity in separate places, yes, then I'd link them to each other so that potential followers can latch upon all of them. There's only so much convenience in following your own accounts on other projects on Mastodon and boosting all their posts onto your own timeline for your Mastodon followers to find. If they aren't the same identity, I'd keep them separate. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland Someone seems to have succeeded in forking #Mastodon and migrating the fork to #Nomad, the underlying protocol of #Streams which provides #NomadicIdentity. There's little information about what exactly is going on, only a tech demo video exists on PeerTube. It shows two test instances and the exact same account with the exact same identity running on both, remaining fully in sync. So yes, it's nomadic. The choice of Nomad instead of #Zot is understandable as it has better integrated #ActivityPub support, so there might not be much incompatibility between vanilla Mastodon and the fork, and it'll stay compatible with the rest of the #Fediverse. Compatibility with #Hubzilla and especially (streams) will even be enhanced, not only because the fork finally recognises nomadic channels, but also also because it clearly features text formatting and quotes. It remains to be seen whether the handling of embedded images will be improved, too. This is still very experimental, and more information has been announced to follow soon. npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland Mike Macgirvin schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Tue, 21 Mar 2023 21:02:29 +0100I wrote Friendica (actually Mistpark) in 2010. I left the project around 2011-2012 as its original architecture didn't fit what I was trying to do with decentralisation, which is basically anything a centralised network can do plus nomadic identity, because Diaspora lost some really big instances and had no migration tools. Nomadic identity is migration on steroids. You clone your identity to multiple servers, and these are kept in sync so if one instance goes down, you just go to another and shrug it off. I then created "Red" to do all of those things - nomadic identity, single sign-on, cloud storage, content management, shopping, etc. This later became Hubzilla. So it does nearly all the Friendica things plus more and better. Then about 2018, when ActivityPub and Mastodon first burst onto the scene, a lot of folks said Hubzilla was doing way to much - and it was. But it does all those things. So I cleaned it up and trimmed it down, keeping the best and jettisoning anything that didn't really belong in a social networking app. I also made ActivityPub do a lot of things which we once did in the Zot protocol. Not all of them, but enough to make a very straightforward and feature complete fediverse server. Like everything else, that started with a different name. Then I took the name away. This work resides in a repository called "streams". It's not a project or product or brand, but it's the best fediverse server you never heard of. Why did I do these things? F*ck brand worship. That and this illusion that everything needs to grow exponentially forever are killing our planet. Anyway if you really want a full featured fediverse server, there are probably others but I've been in this game a very long time and it's pretty darn good and the best I've used. I've tried as many as will let me. Some people don't like the "look", but it's theme-able. You can make it look any way you want. Themes, addons, whatever. Intergated clout storage and permissions, single sign-on, nomadic identity, groups, private groups, moderated groups, circles, events, location services, (checkin, checkout, distance search), channel search which you control, hash tag following, yadda yadda, Post in html, markdown,bbcode or mix them up a bit. Inline SVGs. I could go on for hours, but we've kept it pretty simple. The documentation is a bit lagging, but most people can figure it out. It's more DIY software because we **want** people to make it their own and polish it up in ways we simply don't have time to do. But it's pretty decent out of the box. You don't actually need to do anything. It represents a completely different way of working with the web. Your social network is a different web where instances can be hyper-connected and people don't see the boundaries between instances. You can click on my profile, visit my photo albums and see private photos/vidoes that are only available to you and not get asked for a password or a "home instance". It uses the ActivityPub API. Not the Mastodon API. We also have the Twitter/Statusnet V1 API and our own API. For apps, it's a PWA. Just visit the site and install it as an app. No play store involved. No missing features between the app and the website. Our vision isn't large sites supporting thousands or millions or billions of people in their little separate worlds. It's turning a "million points of light" into a single space with no borders and which is bigger than all of them. And where each individual exercise can exercise their own control over how and with whom they wish to interact and share. I've rambled way too much. Cheers. #Streams #Hubzilla #Fediverse npub198jy9z7jydzryezatw4ceesw6kv022c26he7npunvap2xnl3v0nsn2d3fm Jupiter Rowland @Johannes Ernst @dʒãŋɡo AFAIK, there are already commercial, proprietary, non-free, closed-source payware apps for Fediverse projects. The Apple App Store almost forces you to put your app under a proprietary license; at least the GPL can't be used there. However, no user of any Fediverse project should ever be forced to use a non-free, closed-source app, much less a payware app. All features of all projects should always be accessible through fully free, libre, open-source toolchains, and be it Linux/GNU/Wayland/Plasma/Firefox/Web interface, without ever requiring #GAFAM. No Fediverse feature should ever be exclusive to those who are willing to use a) Windows b) macOS c) ChromeOS d) iOS e) manufacturer-issued Android + Google Play Services