Bitcoiner (special interest in mining and teaching) • CAD/BIM/3D Viz • Christian apologetics/theology • Tech geek • music (listening: love Skillet!/playing: keyboard, guitar) • skiing • cars (used to have 928, hence avatar/handle) • food/cooking • #ITM
Public Key
npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek Profile Code
nprofile1qqsf2v34dg922ftcuap9wj4hy2gp0xu3rcnwzq9dqsatrk0qq0gr0mspz3mhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuerpd46hxtnfduqs6amnwvaz7tmwdaejumr0ds2pqjm7
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2025-02-26T00:48:17Z Event JSON
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Last Notes npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 But, that toxicity makes it hard to forget they helped hand Bitcoin over to the fiat system. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I guess there is an amazingly strong correlation, but over 1100 of you?! npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 For how technically superior the Core-advocates claim to be, I've seen very little technical reason to opposed BIP110. It's mostly Luke-hate, politics, and how dare the plebs rebel type stuff. (Or worse... doesn't have a chance so don't support it.) npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Seemingly little known fact, but it is 100% effective on large OP_Returns. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Is the context of that something in the financial markets, or are they concerned over the infiltration of Core and internal battles? npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Mainly stuff like feeds not loading, hard to figure out UIs, buttons (like follow, or reply not working or as one would expect), identity stuff like NIP-05 kind of working or not and inconsistent to know if it is. I'm guessing some of this has to do with underlying tech like relays, so maybe isn't fixable? But, to the normie, Nostr feels inconsistent and broken compared to somewhere like 𝕏. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Agree, but I'll push back a bit on that list statement in one way. As a non-Nostr-power-user, part of the problem I see (which is a common trap, even in centralized stuff, like Apple), is that maybe there's a bit too much building, and not enough refining. I can't even mentally keep up with all the wild and cool stuff Nostr-related tech can do... but, the UX of the 'gateways' into this universe (let alone the more advanced uses) is sometimes kind of rough. If it is hard to get a corporation to focus on fixing, maintaining, polishing the core... instead of new features, I certainly don't have an answer in regard to open-source. But, that's one of the big issues I see as somewhat a normie looking at it. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I doubt they are doing it purposely... the scammers have just figured out how to game the system. But, if you're ever installing stuff... be very, very careful. That even is true if you're using the app stores (which are supposedly moderated/checked... but they aren't checked well). npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Marianas Trench “Who Do You Love” acoustic Live - Vancouver band! Like barbershop quartet doing rock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzxEDZtYcOg npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Well, or you're a car-person/driver type, and derive enjoyment from a particular type of vehicle and how it drives. That's the only good reason... it actually provides appropriate value to you. Maybe a compete beater has certain social-status costs. But, you can get a perfectly nice and reliable car for not all that much money, do proper maintenance/repairs, and come out way ahead financially. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 No doubt! I must have missed something (I saw a few posts), but was this really a serious topic of discussion around here? npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Somewhat agree, though maybe more than the hardware, is the model creation/training. Not sure if there is a good way to fully open-source that though. I think that's what is really creating the lock-in, because as you note, Apple already has a reasonably good localizing solution (though still rather pricy for the plebs). npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 If a diet Coke costs 2 Bitcoin, something went really, really wrong. 😂 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Wow, that's pretty cool. Will have to look into that someday. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, there's just no good reason for the competition. Even if Bitcoiners did out-price spammers, I'd still want to get rid of it. We shouldn't be allowing it at scale. The fact that we have been is a travesty.... or that there are any supposed-Bitcoiners defending doing so! npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I don't know, but whatever it is apparently prompted the OPA name-change. 😂 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, and the crazy thing is that it isn't unbelievable to the normie because it is some wild complex concept or advanced technology. It is that it is just plain unbelievably stupid. Anyone with an ounce of common sense intuitively knows this can't work, yet here we are with most of the world running that way. It 'works'... until it doesn't. We're about there. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, and it isn't just re: Bitcoin. Lots of really confused people out there, and many think they are really clever. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I'd like to blame that, but I think a very small number of people are aware of it, even among Bitcoiners. While that may be the biggest threat right now, I doubt it is having any price impact. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Hmm, I almost like that better. But, we need a proper Satoshi symbol in the standard character set. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FFOWsshOLBY ♥️ 🎶 🤘 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Hehe, 1°C isn't *that* cold, unless you're from the tropics. That's like Canadian shorts to pants weather, right? 😂 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 As a student of the Bible, it always seemed odd to me that God took fats and organ meats as part of the required sacrifice. We're finally learning. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I'm probably late to this party, but these ladies are fantastic! Three sisters from Mexico that started as a Metallica cover band. You know my affinity for drummers who sing (like Jen Ledger of Skillet), and wow! The Warning - 'Dust To Dust' & 'Dull Knives' (live) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzA3SWkeYd8 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Gm! https://blossom.primal.net/2d1f27bb45430cdef6af17ca85a686124f551952be4af9c56521911b618e0d70.jpg npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Except for this part: "Bitcoin is not what you want it to be. Bitcoin simply is." This could be true of any shitcoin. Bitcoin is a particular thing. Monetary use applies to the rest of your list, but not the network itself and how it functions. It is what has been defined and developed by the concept and community. Without this, it wouldn't be at all. It didn't magically drop from the sky as perfect money, and will take vigilance and effort to keep it that way. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 https://app.cluborange.org/stevew928 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Great job, and very much agree with your analysis. I'll admit I don't fully understand quantum (who does?), but in my ignorance, it seems to jump from real-world to 'woo woo' pretty quickly in terms of how it is actually going to pull off breaking things like this. But, either way, it isn't something that is going to happen quickly, as there are solutions. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etns5DS3Txo npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 That's cute, but I have to disagree. Dates should be either: YYYY-MM-DD for proper sorting purposes. or Dec 3, 2025 (optional 3 Dec, 2025 because if written like that it doesn't matter, so no confusion) npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I sure hope so. The rest of his life in prison would be much too good for that guy. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Some nice instructions on how to hook Ocean to AlbyHub for Lightning payouts: https://getalby.com/blog/how-to-earn-bitcoin-mining-rewards-from-ocean-with-alby-hub npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 That's really awesome! I love the v4v model, and glad to hear it is working for people. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, I think Bitcoin HODL'ing is something you'll have to maintain a somewhat active role in. As technology changes, be willing to move or adapt the setup. There is a discipline that deals with this kind of stuff for archival of data or even physical stuff. So, probably lots of lessons that could be learned by looking at some of the thinking from that discipline. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I agree consensus needs to be changed, but I'm aware of talk around some of these potential issues, and afaik, they are being worked on. I agree that even locking such transactions (accidentally) for a year wouldn't be good, and needs to get fixed. But, so does Bitcoin! Hopefully we can all come to some compromise that doesn't break things (that haven't been purposely setup to break thing... or were using some really far-out non-standard method), but still fixes Bitcoin. It is well past time to reign in the abuse, and make Bitcoin about money again! npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 What in the world are you talking about? The point is trying to fix node policy filters, fix bugs introduced with Segwit the Core devs refuse to fix, and limit some areas of consensus that have been big areas of spam abuse. Also, limiting OP_Return down to prevent Bitcoin becoming a file storage system with potential dangerous outcomes. You gotta be careful. The Core-advocates are making up all kinds of stuff. I'm not aware of any lawsuits (fill me in if you are). I think the initial release of BIP444 had a conflict with some old, rare method of multi-sig, but that has been fixed as far as I know. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 That's true, you are free to troll and risk ruining Bitcoin and all sorts of things like that. You don't need me to understand your why, I guess. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Victoria, BC checking in! 🇨🇦 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I can understand people not liking Luke or Knots' approach. I can't understand people purposely running v30. 😔 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Some things never change, eh? npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 😂 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 So, does that mean you're trimming trees for Sats? Or, the much more interesting concept of a woof-fired Bitcoin miner? 😂 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, that could certainly be the case, as well. But the thinking here was poor regardless. Straw-man, poisoning the well, etc. False analogy to the situation the argument was trying to defend. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I don't know Greg at all, and maybe he's a brilliant coder, but his thinking skills (as demonstrated the last week that I've seen) are very, very poor. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 ASICs can only do a very specific task. ASIC (Application-specific Integrated Circuit) They are very high performance in that one specific thing. But, as Jeff said, AI is competing for the energy and infrastructure. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Skillet - 'Rise' (in Revolution) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBUBSq_wz6o Live and animated mix video npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 But, who is going to be the drummer? I nominate Jen Ledger, though she's kinda busy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-54-HUTEbEg (When she tried out for Skillet, John Cooper thought she was too young, so he assigned her Tom Sawyer as one of the demo songs, and she killed it. She's my favourite drummer now that Neil is gone.) npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 My understanding is that there are areas that require smaller amounts of data (in any Bitcoin financial transaction), and people come up with clever ways of disguising & breaking up data into those areas. Then you are into a cat & mouse situation. And, I suppose various forms of pattern matching to exclude non-monetary data, could also be applied to matching patters within a monetary transaction... thus where the concern over monetary-censorship comes in. To me, this is still a massive distinction, and ultimately, the Bitcoin community is in control either way. We'll either resit crossing that line, or we won't. It isn't like going from arbitrary data exclusion to excluding certain financial transactions will just happen on it's own. We can do one, without the other. But, I'm more for excluding *excess* data-storage. That is quite easy. No cat & mouse. No one potentially calling a real financial transaction (because it also includes some arbitrary data) spam... though this latter ones seems more like some silly FUD. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I've yet to have anyone explain to me, how implementing data-size restriction filters, introduces any kind of potential censorship to Bitcoin financial transactions. My take, is people are purposely (or naively) equivocating on the term censorship. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 This was quite good, and I thank you for this (it is the best from you I have run across, and I've very negatively reacted to what I've regarded as previous, mostly, IMO, disingenuous attempts). However, I still disagree. But, maybe that is because I have different goals than some of the anti-spam camp. My issue around spam, and use of the Bitcoin network, is more focused on blockchain size (for full nodes, not pruned applications), and then some basic abuse prevention. In other words, my goal isn't to catch and prevent every piece of spam, but reasonable protection. Most of us don't turn off our email spam filters, or (if we use ad-blockers), stop using them due to the deficiencies you've highlighted. They are imperfect, but still useful. I guess my response, is why do we even need (what seem to be to me) vast amounts of available storage in the Bitcoin blockchain in the first place? I get that some room was maybe created (on the consensus side) for future wants/needs, so a hard-fork wouldn't be required. But, in general, Bitcoin works pretty well with the data limits cranked down to just enough to create a financial transaction. If we really want Bitcoin to be about financial transactions, we should tighten down the limits anywhere we can, and only loosen them when absolutely necessary. This is, for example, how network security is handled. If someone finds a way to sneak a JPG onto the blockchain in some creative way that fits within a financial transaction data storage limit, I'm still not happy about that. But, hey, the succeeded in circumventing reasonable barriers against. Removing all the barriers, because they might get away with it anyway, seems like quite the opposite ditch. What could possibly be the purpose in doing so, even if you're correct that fees are to be the ultimate barrier? npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Haven't listened to this yet, but this is how I knew about Voddie. https://www.aomin.org/aoblog/the-dividing-line/remembering-voddie-a-short-road-trip-dl/ npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Oh no, that is way too young. 😢 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Except, of course, for the Wizards, who are 'too smart' to realize they are people, too. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Well, no, Bitcoin consensus layer decides what can go into blocks. Nodes decide what is available to the miners to put into blocks. Yes, economic incentives play a roll, but they aren't the only force at play. This argument is like that silly trope that corporations legally have to maximize profits. There is a profit-maximizing tendency at play, yes. But, if they don't balance that with other things, they'll fail. And, once the protest against them gets big enough, they usually bend as well. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 All we have to do is set the rules. It is much more strict than a democracy. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 This is what I mean. You've conflated what censorship resistant means. That is in regard to financial transactions. If we (Bitcoiners as a community) want to stop non-financial transactions, or over so many bytes of data, etc. we can do that. Bitcoin might not care, but it follows the rules we as a community decide because we decide on the code. *I* can't stop anyone, but *we* can. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, I've always just held the bottle on an angle and then give it taps against my hand/wrist towards the opening. Once you get a technique, ti is easy and less-messy than the plastic ones. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 No, it is like putting a deadbolt on the main entrance, so they have to go around and break out a window to crawl in. Then we shoot them. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 https://blossom.primal.net/f1f83c046668805e4c263f929886d8861ae98a8a789c4f839f83eaed7833b2bf.png npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Sorry, this is conflation of terms like 'free' and 'open'. I see this confusion in many areas (like political thought), not just Bitcoin. Free and open in civilized societies (or where that is the goal) doesn't mean 'do whatever you want.' That isn't freedom, but hellscape. If we don't remove the filters, they can only force things in via out-of-band, which only works with overly-centralized mining... which is something we can't have (and need to fix) anyway (and such efforts are heavily underway). We don't actually have to cater to the attacks just because we can't stop 100%. Do you use an email service with spam filters? npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Totally agree. Bad actors, or compromised, or something is up. They were even worse when this whole thing started. Now that it has really blown up, they are actually being a bit better behaved and at least attempting arguments. But, is Robin engagement farming, or this late to the game? 😂 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, that was superior in many ways, once you get a bit of physics technique down. Though I suppose few people got that physics technique down? So, they went squeeze, and plastic, and waste, and mess. 🤦♂️ npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 You can often find them on apps like Meetup, but that is more focused on your own local events, I think. Orange Pill App is also a great way (and community!) to find events, meetups, and Bitcoiners on a proximity basis, but you can see them around the world if you're willing to travel. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 The non-acoustic version is kind of a mini-movie with Universal Pictures intro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y25snz83ms npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Amaranthe with a beautiful acoustic version of 'Hunger'. How often do you get to hear a metal band feature a nyckelharpa (keyed fiddle)? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqLRwkGBL-E npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Most of them are likely still unaware Core went rogue. I suppose a few percent do actually think running Core is the right thing (given interaction w/ Bitcoiners over this issue). npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Remember when humans and chimps were only 1% different genetically? https://idthefuture.com/2060/ npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, and I was thinking about between cities, or even countries (and across the ocean). Would be cool if it wasn't Internet, though as the path. Maybe things like satellite and some kind of short-wave radio (like amateur radio people have been doing for years). npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 mess = mesh npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Need some repeater tech that operates on some other communication networks and connects the parts of the mess up together. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Interesting article, but I just don't see it. Either way you have to teach people something, and this path then you also have to clear up confusion... as it IS confusing (even if confusion for a purpose). Now we have Bitcoins worth tiny amounts and BTC worth lots? I just don't see any need to change... keep it as is. ₿0.00012345 or 12345 Sats. We just need a really nice Sat symbol built into character sets. I don't think anyone won't know 12,345 Sats aren't Bitcoin who has gotten into Bitcoin. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Seriously?! Not you guys too. Horrible idea that is just going to cause confusion. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Heh, now I have to know what that term means. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 It is even worse than lack of interest. They'll discourage you if they find out you're interested in Bitcoin. I was talking to a financial adviser at my bank about setting up retirement savings account, and just asked if ETFs were available in those, like Bitcoin ones. He said, yeah, but he'd stay away from those, as while Bitcoin looks good, it is just a bubble. You want to get into something solid. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 20 minutes in now... and this is so much better than I anticipated. Most dense presentation of 'why Bitcoin' I've yet to run across. Also, most dense presentation of what is wrong with the world, from an economics-driven perspective (which ultimately impacts nearly everything). npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 How about song off Skillet's new album? I'm really loving this one the more I hear it. It has vibes of some of the symphonic metal songs from their peak popularity. 'Fire Inside Of Me' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjUb9G8Ygxc npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 This is wild so far, and I'm only a bit over 5 minutes in! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vd35J-TA_4 npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Teaching Christian apologetics and Bitcoin. Along with a bit more leisure activity. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 That was very good. And, it is hard to think back more than a couple generations for most people. While I don't know all the (political) history well, I would urge them to go back and examine some of the aspects of the primary religion in the region (which I know a fair amount about). IMO, they need to break away from all three. How to do that, I'm not sure. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 If you want your mind really blown, check out the Metamorphosis documentary. Here is a review I wrote years ago: https://www.tilledsoil.org/media-review-metamorphosis/ npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, I'm always careful to tell people Lightning is more like your 'spending money' or the wallet in their pocket. They wouldn't keep their life savings in their fiat-wallet. There are exceptions for certain use-cases, but most people should keep minimal amounts on Lightning. If fees ever go high, this will be a much more relevant concern as many might be forced to using banking services or custodial solutions. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 OK, fair point, but only in the context of self-hosting vs cloud-hosting. Yes, you need to have more than just Internet access to self-host your own Lightning node. Someone can easily use a Bitcoin wallet with just periodic Internet access. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I guess I just disagree there. Those terms all imply something other than accounting practices are going on with Satoshis. They are terms we use when talking about other aspects of crypto, which many Bitcoiners are somewhat opposed to. As mentioned, I have no issue if we're just using them in casual conversation. But, I think they can imply something is going on that isn't, especially if the argument is that Lightning isn't Bitcoin. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I guess I mostly agree here, and prefer self-custody. I'm not arguing against self-custody. In the past, Lightning complexity did lead many towards custodial solutions. I think this is changing, but is still mostly true for people not so into it. I still think the distinction between 'paper' and 'not under your full control' is important, though. But, yeah, in practicality for the average person, either can be abused. Are you concerned that the masses will start to primarily depend on custodial Lightning for their Bitcoin storage? If so, I'd join you in that concern. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 meant: 'dealing with on-chain Bitcoin' npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I guess I'm not understanding the distinction here, aside from my Satoshis being less secure. I've already admitted that is the case, and I'm fine with that. Most people will have a pretty hard time dealing with Bitcoin with no Internet, as well, (even if technically possible). npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 You have been using terms like: exchange, redeemable, swapped, etc. Those are fine if we're just casually talking, even if they are technically imprecise. But, when you have used them, you've been using them to imply Bitcoin being used in the Lightning context is something other than Bitcoin on-chain. There is a difference sometimes in terms of custody, security, etc. But, not in the way those terms are implying. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Both true points, but there is a difference once you introduce 'paper' in terms of terminology. When we talk about 'paper Bitcoin' we're talking about having an IOU for which we don't know the quantity for sure, not that it is in someone else's custody. Two different issues. Self-custody is better (unless it ins't... there are downsides, like security). But, that is different than terms like 'paper' or 'IOU' imply when used in common dialog. Yes, if the gold is in a bank account, maybe the bank might take it away or not allow me access. But, that isn't the same having a certificate for 1 bar of gold, and not knowing whether the bank has 100 or 0. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 It is open-source software running on my computer. I hold the keys to the wallet. Maybe there is a greater attack surface having the Sats off-chain. But, I'm fully in control of them. I'm not really that worried about it, though. I keep most of my Bitcoin on-chain. Lightning is for 'spending money' and I use it to cheaply get Sats from mining or exchanges, unless buying larger amounts. If I lose my Lightning wallet somehow (worst case), it won't be all that big of a deal. I just don't really see a downside (aside from a tiny one). npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 What do we call it, then? Because the terms you've been using aren't correct. It isn't like ETH where I swap it via an exchange for Bitcoin. It isn't like a stable-coin like Tether, or even side-chains like Liquid. When I have 100 Satoshis in my Lightning wallet, it is because there is a channel based on a wallet with those 100 Satoshis in it. In some sense, I suppose the IOU language kind of applies, compared to self-custody Bitcoin in my own wallet. But, then again, if it is under my control, not really either. Those 100 Sats in my Lightning wallet can be swapped, by me, at any-time into my on-chain wallet. It is more like if I'm taking a loan from myself (if self-custody). Yes, if you are using a custodial Lightning wallet, those Satoshis are under control by someone else (but same technology either way... they are just as real, just not controlled by you, ultimately). npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Not really... custody doesn't mean something is real or not. If I have a bar of gold at my home, or a bar of gold in some bank vault, they are both gold. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 But, it isn't impossible at all. I have a self-custody Lightning node. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 True, your Satoshis in your Lightning wallet need to be moved on-chain (from your perspective) to end up in your on-chain Bitcoin wallet. But, behind the scenes, they were Satoshis which were taken into a multi-sig situation to be made available to Lightning network accounting. The point, though, is that Lightning isn't some other coin or token being redeemed for Bitcoin. If you use that language, it becomes confusing. The accounting is being done off-chain, but it is for real Satoshis in real Bitcoin wallets. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Fair point, but that is more a technical reality for many, than a problem with the thing itself. You do need a consistent internet connection to self-host a Lightning node (which I do, and have). There are also self-custodial cloud-hosted nodes if you don't have such a stable Internet connection yourself. But, self-custody or custodial doesn't really change that the Satoshis are real or not. It is a matter of risk-profile. The tech is identical either way. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 OK, I see. You're confusing custodial vs non-custodial with what the asset actually is. It is true many depend on custodial Lightning solutions, but that doesn't really have anything to do with the tech. They could get rugged, sure. But, a Satoshi on Lightning, is still a Satoshi. The custodian could steal it, that is the risk. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Lightning isn't 'redeemable for Bitcoin'. Lightning IS Bitcoin. I don't think you understand Lightning. My knowledge, as I admitted in terms of all the underlying tech is limited, but I'm pretty confident I know that much. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 I will admit my technical knowledge of Lightning is kind of limited, but I'm pretty sure underneath, it is Bitcoin held in a 2 or 2 multi-sig. I've heard there are some ways it could get taken (ie. less secure), but as far as I know, it is always 100% Bitcoin. It isn't being swapped into some other kind of token, etc. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 But, it isn't soft money when it is not on-chain. It is just less secure. The financial value basis of it is still the same either way. For a low-risk transaction, it works just fine (for both parties involved). There are more risks involved, but a Lightning Satoshi is the same as an on-chain one in terms of purchasing power or not being inflated. In an economic sense, when we talk about hard money, we're not so much talking about whether it can be stolen or stuff like that. We're talking inflation of the supply, Cantillion effect, or things like that which enable wars, wealth transfers, unlimited gov't, etc. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 There is something you're not understanding here? Lightning is Bitcoin. It is off chain, yes, so you lose some security and the proof-of-work backing THOSE transactions (until re-settled), but the proof-of-work was already done backing the Bitcoin itself. Fiat trickery aside.... think of the traditional bank model (like maybe when on the gold standard). You have $1000 in the bank. It is pretty secure there, as they have vaults and guards and such. You go to the bank and withdraw $100 into your pocket. It is now less secure, but it's still $100 dollars. If I go to a store and pull out a $10 bill, the store doesn't go... "oh, that one was insecure in your wallet. I want the $10 bill directly out of your bank account." When I'm buying a coffee, or even a bag of groceries, those are very likely acceptable tradeoffs for both myself and the merchant. As long as that is the case, there isn't a big advantage of it being an on-chain payment that I can see. npub1j5er26s255jh3e6z2a9twg5sz7dez83xuyq26pp6k8v7qq7sxlhql32kek SteveW928 Yeah, it has flaws, but worked for hundreds (thousands?) of years. We can now do much better with digital and eliminate some of the flaws. The problem, I think, with saying now that we're digital, we'll just bypass the above model, is that there are tradeoffs. If we just do everything direct, then we run into that chain-bloat situation. Going to a somewhat parallel model to the 'cash drawer' (like Lightning), solves the chain-bloat problem, but has to accept a few tradeoffs.