Stuffed Crocodile

A blog (mostly) about tabletop roleplaying games

Blog: https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/
Blog: https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/

Last Notes

2024-12-16 11:19:56 GMT

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Terry Pratchett interview in Adventurer 11 (June/July 1987)[](https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/adventurer-magazine-11_00000.jpg )Adventurer was a rather short running UK RPG magazine. In the last issue, Adventurer 11, June/July 1987, there was an interesting interview with Terry Pratchett, where he recounted his experiences with D&D (he used to play and early Discworld has at least some influences from that) and why he stopped.
My favorite part is this one:
> I gained marvellous insight into human nature one day when I introduced the concept of D&D to six ladies who worked in the tele-ads department of a local newspaper for which I was working-They cottoned on to the idea fairly quickly, so I gave them a little scenario which I’d been round backwards and forwards and upside down. They got one central idea torture everyone you meet and grab everything you can. It was a beautiful scenario. There were goodies, baddies, people on your side, monsters. They didn’t care. They just marched in and killed everybody. It didn’t matter to them if their victims were lying there, half-dead. An hour into the game and the air was smoking over the table-they were kicking doors down, no advancing carefully down passages-they ran, swords out. There was one monster which was nearly impossible to kill. They were supposed to find a secret device to help, but they just stood round its cage and kept sticking their swords in. Eventually its hit points came down from one billion trillion to something you could deal with, and they were quite prepared to stand there all day prodding it!The dice rolls were all in their favour and I as DM just gave up. If they couldn’t understand what something was. they threw it away. Out went various clues, secret keys, parchments, but any recognisable treasure went into the sack. And out they went, with two trolls and one zombie they’d made into beasts of burden. It was the first time anyone had ever raped a dungeon. There was nothing left.
[](https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/adventurer-magazine-11_0039-1.jpg )[](https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/adventurer-magazine-11_0040.jpg )[](https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/adventurer-magazine-11_0041.jpg )[](https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/adventurer-magazine-11_0042.jpg )###
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#Discworld #dnd #Fantasy #osr #pratchett #terrypratchett #ttrpg
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2024-01-12 13:33:08 GMT

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The Oldest TTRPG Forum on the Net[](https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/dnd-newsgroup.png )Did you know there is an online forum for tabletop role-playing games that has been around since the early 80s, and which still is active and operating?
Admittedly in a much diminished state than at it’s heyday.
I don’t know if you ever heard the term [Usenet ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet )before, and even if you did, if you don’t just connect it with data piracy. Because that’s what it is mostly used for nowadays.
What it started out as were discussion forums.
Back in the late 70s, after [ARPANET ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET )had been created and email had been invented, a few programmers came up with an idea for an electronic bulletin board that could be read asynchronously. This was the time when computers still were only in big institutions like universities, big companies, and the military, and the whole idea was to create “a poor man’s ARPANET”. Connections between computers were rare and expensive , but possible. So these “news” started as a way to propagate articles and messages along servers that were not constantly connected to the internet. Some of the servers involved would only connect once a day to the network to transfer messages in and out (often at night because charges were lower then). A message might travel for multiple days before it reached all nodes in the network, and some of the earliest were messages about a nascent hobby popular among the people using this network: **fantasy role-playing**.
From what I can see the first [two messages ](https://article.olduse.net/126%40Awhuxlb.UUCP )on the brand new group net.games.frp were sent out on the 12th of January 1982.
To give you an idea just how early this was: it was before the abbreviation RPG became common, people were still talking about **F**antasy **R**ole**P**laying instead, so even today the group-names use the abbreviation **FRP**.
It’s quite a fascinating system that over time has become ever more complex and popular, before the ascent of html, hyperlinks, and the world wide web pushed it into the seedy corners of the ‘net.
Instead of having websites, Usenet is organized in [newsgroups](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup ), and those groups are organized in hierarchies. There are the so called [Big Eight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) ) that have a certain standard for group creation and posting (e.g. **rec**. for recreational topics, and **comp**. for topics concerning computers), and there are others, organized in one way or another (famously [**alt.**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt.*_hierarchy ) which had lower standards for the creation of new groups).
Messages are sent to one or more groups ([crossposted](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossposting )), distributed around the network, and people respond to these posts. Interesting discussions and arguments ensue, people get angry, flame wars ensue, other people learn something new, weird in-jokes develop, stuff happens.
All that can be read via archives, the biggest of which is [Google Groups,](https://groups.google.com/ ) which both is a boon and downfall of the service: Google purchased the old newsgroup archives of DejaNews back in the 90s, and integrated it in it’s [Google Groups ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Groups )service. In a picture-perfect example of [Embrace, Extend, Extinguish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish ) the users of Groups had a web interface that allowed them access to their old newsgroups, access to new groups that only existed on Google, but also allowed spammers to flood the connected newsgroups with loads of unmoderated spam. Spam that recently was quoted by them as a reason to cut the connection with Usenet, bringing this phase of the network to an end.
But Usenet still is running, and most likely will be running as long as there are people willing to run servers for it. But the biggest Usenet servers nowadays are piracy servers that keep the text-part of the Usenet as more of an afterthought. At one point someone came up with a way to use the text-only format of Usenet in a way to distribute data that was binary, i.e. not purely text. And this took over most of the system.
But I am not really interested in that and never was. What I am interested in are the fantasy roleplaying parts of that network.
**rec.games.frp.***
I said that the forum has been running since the late 70s, but that’s not quite correct. The original structure of Usenet grew organically from the beginning. People were creating new groups when it suited them and it seemed logical. Which soon caused some hierarchies (specifically the **net**. hierarchy) to swell with groups that could barely be maintained. In a [great upheaval in 1987](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Renaming ) all the groups were renamed and restructured.
Some old hands are still angry about it and will bitch about it for days. That also is Usenet.
One can argue that the fantasy roleplaying group has existed since before that time. One also could argue that it only exists since 1987. Which still is older than the World Wide Web.
Usenet is divided into hierarchies, and the frp-hierarchy is part of the **rec**. (recreation-hierarchy) and **.games.** sub-hierarchy.
There are currently 11 **.frp**. groups in that hierarchy:<tbody><tr><td>rec.games.frp.dnd</td><td>of course… it’s the hierarchy for Dungeons and Dragons. Always one of the biggest topics of the whole FRP forums this one got it’s own group.</td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.misc</td><td>for basically all other kinds of discussions about roleplaying games</td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.cyber</td><td>for cyberpunk systems (e.g. Cyberpunk 2020 or Shadowrun). </td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.super-heroes </td><td>for superhero games</td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.live-action</td><td>anything LARP goes here.</td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.announce </td><td>announcements and news about products go here</td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.industry</td><td>for all kinds of discussions about the rpg industry</td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.storyteller </td><td>yes, this was created when the World of Darkness was big enough to demand it’s own forum</td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.gurps</td><td>For GURPS, this part was created because while never the most popular game, it’s fans flooded the main group with so many messages about builds that it was decided to give them their own place.</td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.advocacy</td><td>all kinds of discussions about roleplaying games as such and how they work. This is where the Forge came from back in the day</td></tr><tr><td>rec.games.frp.market</td><td>I guess this is for selling stuff. I have literally never seen a message in there.</td></tr></tbody>
Most of these lay fallow right now, with me and a few others being the only ones posting there every once in a while. I do have to admit part of it is because I don’t want to lose the that part of ttrpg history to a random deletion request for non-use.
**Other TTRPG groups**
The main hierarchies are not the only ones. Most normal Usenet servers carry at least the Big Eight, but most also carry others. The big other hierarchy is **alt**. (…definitely not named for **A**narchists, **L**unatics, and **T**errorists, all evidence to the contrary…), which makes it easier to create groups. This means there are a few other groups here that might be of interest, if they ever would get someone to post in them. Their structure though is not as organized as the ones in the Big 8.<tbody><tr><td>alt.games.frp.adnd-util</td><td>about utilities for playing ADnD. I would say, a general groups for RPG utilities.</td></tr><tr><td>alt.games.adnd</td><td>for ADnD. I am not sure why this exists, maybe because the main one was too stodgy, or it was created because someone thought ADnD was sufficiently different than DnD to warrant it’s own group</td></tr><tr><td>alt.games.earthdawn </td><td>for Earthdawn. Remember Earthdawn?</td></tr><tr><td>alt.games.x-files.rpg </td><td>For the X-Files RPG. Remember that?</td></tr><tr><td>alt.games.whitewolf</td><td>I guess a group for White Wolf games, which is also already covered in rec.games.frp.storyteller</td></tr><tr><td>alt.games.tolkien.rpg</td><td>a group about playing in Tolkien’s Middle-Earth</td></tr></tbody>
There are also local and language dependent groups around. Many languages and regions have their own hierarchies for exchanges between locals and/or in other languages.<tbody><tr><td>uk.games.roleplay</td><td>group for roleplaying in the UK</td></tr><tr><td>de.rec.spiele.rpg.misc</td><td>general group for discussions of RPGs in German</td></tr><tr><td> z-netz.freizeit.rollenspiele.dsa </td><td>originally this was an Echo in a mailbox network, by now z-netz. is a small alternative German Usenet hierarchy. This particular one about Das Schwarze Auge/The Dark Eye</td></tr><tr><td>pl.rec.gry.rpg</td><td>Polish-language group </td></tr><tr><td>es.rec.juegos.rol</td><td>Spanish-language group</td></tr><tr><td>se.spel.rollspel</td><td>Swedish-language group</td></tr><tr><td>dk.fritid.rollespil</td><td>Danish-language group </td></tr><tr><td>fr.rec.jeux.jdf</td><td>French-language group</td></tr><tr><td>it.hobby.giochi.gdr</td><td>Italian-language group</td></tr><tr><td>hr.rec.igre.rpg</td><td>Hungarian-language group</td></tr><tr><td>aus.games.roleplay</td><td>Australian group</td></tr></tbody>
There are more, some of which I might not even find that easy because they are not on the servers I frequent (not all servers carry all groups) or are so specialized they might not be of interest to anyone but locals (e.g. **saar.rec.rollenspiele** exists, but I doubt many people in Saarland (the smallest of Germany’s federal states) still know Usenet exists)
**Ok, ok, but how do you actually ACCESS this Usenet thingy?**
That’s a bit more difficult, but not much. It used to be ISPs were all running their own news servers, this was actually the REASON you might want internet access as a private person, but that isn’t the case anymore. Google Groups is also going away, so that’s not a real option.
An easy way to check out what is being talked about on the FRP-hierarchy is [campaignwiki.org/news.](https://campaignwiki.org/news ) This server makes it possible to read and post on his own small server via a web-interface. The server is only running roleplaying-related groups, including the global FRP-hierarchy, and a few local ones that do not get carried in many other places.
Another way to access it via web browser is via web gateways. There are a few around, e.g. [NovaBBS](https://www.novabbs.com/interests/ ). There are a few of those around, but they might not carry all the groups (NovaBBS e.g. only [rec.games.frp.dnd](https://www.novabbs.com/interests/thread.php?group=rec.games.frp.dnd ) and[ .misc](https://www.novabbs.com/interests/thread.php?group=rec.games.frp.misc ), because those are the ones with most activity).
The proper way to use it is of course by getting an account on a news server and adding it to your feed reader of choice. True hardcore users use terminal-based readers like [tin ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_(newsreader) )or [Gnus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnus ), but many Email programs like [Mozilla Thunderbird](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Thunderbird ) [allow you to subscribe to newsgroups](https://kb.iu.edu/d/arrn ).
[](https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/thunderbird.png )**But where do you get a news server? **
Well, there are multiple free options (these are all technically text-only, although a few have some basic binary groups that allow pictures):<tbody><tr><td>c<a href="http://campaignwiki.org/news">ampaignwiki.org/news</a></td><td>(Switzerland) very small server, focused on ttrpg groups, also has simple web-portal</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://www.eternal-september.org/">Eternal September</a></td><td>(Germany) popular free access server with wide range of groups</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://www.i2pn2.org/">I2PN2</a></td><td>simple text server</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://news.novabbs.org/rocksolid/index.php">NovaBBS</a></td><td>text server, as mentioned above also has web-portal</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://solani.org/">Solani</a></td><td>(Germany) server</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://dotsrc.org/usenet/">dotsrc</a></td><td>(Denmark) focused on Danish users</td></tr><tr><td><a href="http://www.news.bbs.nz/">Agency News</a></td><td>(New Zealand) server</td></tr><tr><td><a href="http://news.chmurka.net/">Chmurka</a></td><td>(Poland) basic server focused on Polish users</td></tr><tr><td><a href="http://csiph.com/">CSIPH</a></td><td>basic server</td></tr><tr><td><a href="http://open-news-network.org/node/5">Open News Network</a></td><td>(Germany) focused on German users</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://news.gegeweb.org/">Gegeweb</a></td><td>(France) focused on French users</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://news.hispagatos.org/">Hispagatos</a></td><td>(Spain) focused on Spanish users</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://pasdenom.info/news.html">Pasdenom</a></td><td>(France) focused on French users</td></tr><tr><td><a href="https://news.nntp4.net/">NNTP4</a></td><td>(Germany) basic server</td></tr></tbody>
Most of these have instructions on how to connect on their websites.
*Note: This is a redo of an [article I wrote 13 years ago](https://gmkeros.wordpress.com/2012/09/15/tools-how-to-use-usenet-a-biased-introduction/ ). Originally I thought I could just let that one stand like that, but just briefly reading through it I noticed things had changed dramatically in some areas. So I rewrote the whole thing from scratch.*###
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#dnd #dsa #dungeonsAndDragons #gaming #newsgroup #newsserver #RolePlayingGame #Roleplaying #rpg #thunderbird #ttrpg #Usenet
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2011-09-01 22:12:00 GMT

Back in the 90s (starting with Moving Pictures) [Terry Pratchett](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Pratchett ) (yet to be knighted) changed his German publisher. A rather radical move in the market for someone who had been published by Heyne for a dozen books to raising sales. I remember reading it in the* Jahrbuch der Science Fiction and Fantasy 1994* (Annual of Science Fiction and Fantasy): It stated in a rather laconic tone that his books would now be published by Goldmann instead of Heyne. The brisk tone of the notice (where most others would have had a small quip with amazing insider info on different deals) might have been connected with the fact that the editor of the Jahrbuch was also the chief editor of Heyne, and he was reporting about himself losing a bestselling author.
The reason for the change was… well… the Heyne publishing house put in a soup advert in one of his books without asking, and would not promise to not do it again. As Pterry said himself:
> There were a number of reasons for switching to Goldmann, but a deeply personal one for me was the way Heyne (in Sourcery, I think, although it may have been in other books) inserted a soup advert in the text … a few black lines and then something like ‘Around about now our heroes must be pretty hungry and what better than a nourishing bowl’… etc, etc. My editor was pretty sick about it, but the company wouldn’t promise > [> not to do it again](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExecutiveMeddling )> , so that made it very easy to leave them. They did it to > [> Iain Banks](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IainBanks )> , too, and apparently at a con he tore out the offending page and ate it. Without croutons.
Okay, I know what you are thinking now: What?
Here’s a picture of the whole business from the German edition of Pyramids Sourcery:
The text in the blackout section reads something like: the stairway Teppic was on was not really good for a break… but we can have one, so let’s adjourn for 5 minutes and make a cup of soup…
> It might actually be pretty good fortune that Trymon spent his time reading old manuscripts, as like that he had to lose against an angry Rincewind. But this also hides a hint to the reader to watch out for proper nourishment, A small bit of nourishment, all without magic spells…etc.
It’s an ad for a 5-minute soup.
Yeah. It’s real.
That was a standard practice for Heyne back then. At least with their genre novels. And it was noticeable to a lot of people because they had the good luck of having one of the largest and best selections of SF/F-literature in the country. Mostly thanks to awesome editors.
Pratchett was not the only one with the soup adverts, I remember at least one Star Trek novel and a few non-franchise ones having the same stuff in it.
The whole thing was a holdover from the 50s or 60s, when practices like that were more common, especially with publishers of cheap genre fiction. They were rather popular for pulling in additional revenue on cheaply priced paperbacks that might not make their money back. And as the genres were not really seen as literature at all by anyone who mattered, fans and editors often had to fight bloody battles to get their stuff published even if it did go bestseller in the end.
Mind you though,* this* was the 90s, the average price for Heyne paperbacks was 13 Marks/6,5 Euros, not the cheapest of books by then.
It was definitely out of place for a publisher which was already one of the market leaders in that time. I do have the strong suspicion that these things were a standing order from the 60s: Most likely at one point in the past the SF/F editor of Heyne got told by management they had to run these adverts so the books could make some money back, and then they never revoked it afterwards.
I know how company policies work. It would be something like that.
Fans of course got used to it, if it gave them access to the books, why not? But it became more and more grating the more genre literature was accepted into mainstream.
And then you actually had a bestseller author like Pratchett jump ship and go to the direct contender (Goldmann), just because one of these stupid stunts. I wonder how that actually was taken by the Heyne CEOs. Back then Pratchett was at the verge of becoming a star in Germany as well, so they lost him just when he was getting big.
It might just have been a secondary thing, but I never saw one of these adverts in any novel published after ’94.
*Edit: the old picture from Pyramids was broken, I replaced it with another one from Sourcery, this one even more tacky. So yes, there were multiple ones. *###
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#Books #Goldmann #IainBanks #Maggi #Publishing #scienceFiction #Soup #StarTrek #TerryPratchett